Duelling & Diablo 3 > Rules & development

D3CL PvP Rules - open discussion

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Damx:
manner plays way behind role when it comes to ladders and winning .. its just human nature :P

error:

--- Quote from: Euronymous on February 19, 2013, 23:14:28 pm ---In my opinion rules should be made similar to what we had in most D2 leagues back in the day: Specific rules for all match-ups. I just don't think universal rules alone, e.g. "no life regen" or "ban skill xy", will be sufficient. They could do more harm than good. That's the kind of balancing we can expect from Blizzard (flat 30%/35% reduce *cough*), but we can certainly do better ;)
I'm sure that many knowledgable players would volunteer to test all possible match-ups.

@error
Who would define the first build though? This could lead to players provoking a stalemate if they feel that they can't win in the current setup and that they could gain an advantage by forcing the opponent to use lesser skills. Tanky players could bluff and use weaker skills in the beginning to strip their opponents of their strong skills.

--- End quote ---

Hi Euronymous,

I like your question about the first built. I think this is the key factor to solve this problem. In D2 we hadn't this problem because classes only had one set of skills. This is why I came up with the standard built in my last scenario post.

Every player must have a defined standard built to avoid forced stalemates. If classes don't have a predefined built/playstyle there are more chances of forced stalemate. The predefined standard built must be the first built used in the encounter so there are many less chances of players trying that bait & switch skills to force stalemates.

Some of you may think: "Ok, but I use different builts vs different classes". This is not true. You may use different builts vs different class-builts because any class can be a glass canon/tank/balanced/sniper/etc...

If we apply plain restrictions to skills, max HP, life regen, armor, etc... we are not only breaking tanks in every class, we may also be making some hybrid class/builts unviable that relied on those capped mechanics. It is not the same having 200k hp, 5k armor, 500 all res and 2k regen than having  150k hp, 10k armor, 1k all res and 4k regen. The first player is extending EHP by stacking vitality and the second is just unkillable.

Some restrictions may be good or not but any character that can run arround for endless time while waiting for its HP to regen or for skills to regen its HP (i.e. Serenity,Preparation,Sacrifice,etc...) and that must not be allowed for the sake of fun. I think the root of the problem is not the regen mechanic itself but the abuse of it. One more example. Imagine no HP regen for anyone, what do you do vs a Storm Armor wizzard that runs arround? Maybe the real problem is running arround.

error:

--- Quote from: Damx on February 20, 2013, 10:25:37 am ---manner plays way behind role when it comes to ladders and winning .. its just human nature :P

--- End quote ---

Let's change the ladder system then. This solution can't be more simple: Prisoner's dilemma.
Set of rules:
1- Rounds that last more than 5 minutes are draw (like a double KO) +1/+1.
2- Encounters that end in 5/5 (draw encounters) make both opponents lose double quantity of points.
3- Subsequent draw encounters will double the last penalty applied to each opponent (exponential growth for everyone).

Exponential growth penalty is not an excessive penalty because the objective is to get rid of unwanted behaviours that harm the spirit of the competition. It will also get rid of certain builts/playstyles that feel bad to the majority of participants.
Any standard dueler may prefer forcing a stalemate if he truly believes he's not being bad mannered because he will have the opportunity to overcome a bad score of 2-4 or even 8 lost encounters in extreme cases.
Obviously if someone is facing a penalty of 16-32-64 encounters may think twice before forcing a stalemate (unless he's a psyco and wants to get buried in the ladder). Someone in this position must have common acceptance problems because many people in the competition don't like his ways and he is undoubtly bad mannered to the rest of the comunity in any sort of form.

Mr.Mag:
I'm not quite sure if ELO system supports draws when both players lose points. i'm afraid this is undesirable situation. One thing is certain, something needs to be done with draws.

kaio:
I'm a wizard player and an old member of euro-pvp.

I'm top 5 wiz pvp dummy in world.
If I play vs similar barb/dh/monk is near a 100% lost.
Played vs Heroman (one of the top barb) simple impossible to win even a round
Played vs SINI (my korean bro  ;D) Impossible
Played vs Monk using bell build got 50% to win
Played vs top Dh -> Impossible to win

No need to say what happend vs WD.


I think we can't wait blizzard to fix this cose they simple don't care about it even if I think the only thing that make us play d2 for so long was only pvp.

What we have to do if we want to make pvp better is to set some rules asap cose for me now this league got no sense as almost all duells are autolose.

I'm open to test and help all the possible solutions.

kaio#2367

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