Duelling & Diablo 3 > Rules & development
D3CL PvP Rules - open discussion
Mr.Mag:
remember about one important thing. even if we create a fantastic but complicated rules, we have to be able to enforce those rules. i'm sure a lot of cheaters will appear ;)
Wittster:
I think it's very important that we keep our rules as simple as possible and do our best to NOT limit gearing options unless there's no other way. I really don't think life regen is as big of a problem as some of you make it sound. It's just the high regen rend/sprint barb that's causing issues, oh and maybe the TR Monk and Brooding DH.
Best solution for draws imo as someone posted earlier: if 1st game is a draw after 5mins, players can 'ban' 1 of their opponent's skills. I think this problem is mostly barb-centered and with this rule, their opponent can choose to either ban sprint or rend for example, so their hit&run tactics don't work anymore. Ofcourse they're at a big disadvantage then but this risk just promotes more active play in the 1st game.
I do agree that wd's should probably be nerfed a little and wizards buffed a little, but am unsure what's the best way to do this.
MoKKaL:
Best solution for draws imo as someone posted earlier: if 1st game is a draw after 5mins, players can 'ban' 1 of their opponent's skills. I think this problem is mostly barb-centered and with this rule, their opponent can choose to either ban sprint or rend for example, so their hit&run tactics don't work anymore. Ofcourse they're at a big disadvantage then but this risk just promotes more active play in the 1st game.
this can be nicely abused aswell :)
for example if someone just tries to get a draw 1st round and takes away my skill: blizzard, my main dmg is gone - even though i didnt want to get a draw.
But due the fact i cant reach TR Monks and Sprint Barbs (if they want to do so) i have a nearly 0% chance to "avoid" this scenario.
saesa:
Anything with timer is clueless and heavily abused. History proved it. You play with watch or enjoy dueling?
error:
--- Quote from: Euronymous on February 20, 2013, 13:12:47 pm ---Are stalemates really that big of a problem right now? Wouldn't it be sufficient to just draw with +-0 for the rare occasion and avoid those players in the future? There are more than enough duelers out there to gain points.
Error, the rules you suggested would make dueling less fun for me. I really think what we need most now are match-up rules to even out class imbalances.
I obviously agree with kaio here, wizards need a huge buff by league rules.
--- Quote from: error on February 20, 2013, 11:55:05 am ---Every player must have a defined standard built to avoid forced stalemates. If classes don't have a predefined built/playstyle there are more chances of forced stalemate.
--- End quote ---
a. Same build to begin all duels. Takes away one of the most interesting features D3 has to offer. I never had a stalemate yet, thanks to the diversity of WDs. If I see a really tanky barb I just pack more offensive skills. A "one-for-all" build would have to be balanced and therefore lack the damage needed to take down some tanks. In this case the rule would force me to force a stalemate.
--- Quote from: error on February 20, 2013, 11:55:05 am ---Set of rules:
1- Rounds that last more than 5 minutes are draw (like a double KO) +1/+1.
2- Encounters that end in 5/5 (draw encounters) make both opponents lose double quantity of points.
3- Subsequent draw encounters will double the last penalty applied to each opponent (exponential growth for everyone).
--- End quote ---
b. This will give "bad mannered" players another option. Once you are leading, avoid getting killed for 5 minutes and you will win the duel.
--- End quote ---
I bet my underwear rubberband that something different being implemented will be less fun for you. WD excels in 1vs1 in terms of micromanaging, dps, skill mechanics and ehp(via induction). Blizzard did no mechanic balancing at all between classes. Wizzards and WDs are the living prove, both are ranged, based on the same main stat and a very similar resource system. ATM WDs are kings of pvp and Wizzys are the boufon. Sad but true.
Jokes appart, I will try to answer your statements:
A- Other classes simply can't get more DPS to take down tank barbs. The same way other classes can't have enough microing/DPS/EHP/skill mechanics to defeat certaing opponents. It is completely unfair receiving a challenge from a class-built one has no chance to defeat because of those inherent limitations. Then we either can restrict builts/skills against certain classes, limit some mechanics or promote stalemates as an option.
I personally don't like limitations because it will force us to use cookie cutter builts or getting rid -as you said- of most interesting features in the game.
B- I might not explained myself with the right example. The Prisonner's Dilemma is an iterative unregulated approach to achieve common weal. We may want to use stalemate as a not wished solution thus punishing its repeated use. If a player thinks smart because he's manipulating the challenge system clogging the limitation mechanism and just challenging players with builts over he's a clear advantage those classes can "punish" this behaviour by forcing stalemates from the first moment. I think a bad mannered player will be bad mannered from the start because he doesn't identify himself as bad mannered, he thinks he's better/smarter via abbusing ubalanced classes.
If i didn't misunderstand the scenario you stated the "bad mannered" player starts being bad mannered so he can win the first duel. There's also the possibility of the bad mannered using the draw 5 minute timer once he's had advantage. In this case we must implement a new rule that states something like:
- No player can change his built if he's in advantage.
I need you to keep thinking about scenarios with such conflicts and weird cases to find an acceptable solution for everyone.
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