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[mannercookie]

hp caps and dps caps won't work since the stat sheet dps is highly incorrect for some clases while not for others, it would be a very imbalanced rule system.

hps is same thing, some classes core skills are designed around hp pools, setting a cap would limit their builds while other classes aren't affected.

I suppose there could be individual caps per class, but I mean I don't think it really matters at the end-game gear level for pvp, the fact that someone has 10k more life than u just doesn't make much difference I found.

I've recently dueled some players with extremely high pvp gear level, and all I can tell you is that, PVP in it's current state at the highest end PVP gear (not pve gear), is very heavily RNG based to make any sort of competitive scene work. This is due to the fact that at end-game gear, most players will have a balance of mitigation+dps and it really comes down to crit% since crits are the only form of damage vs each other with the current BIS items in game for pvp. Crit % is way too random to ever show a clear advantage for one person.

without the rock,paper,scissor element in the matches, it just won't work.

and also I don't even think rings/ammy changes should be allowed and I can't see how that will be moderated unless everyone is recording their duels. Only other solution could be must have empty inventory, and a ref can be requested at any point randomly during the match to come in and dump a full inventory full of blues or what not and if they aren't able to pick it up, obv their inventory wasn't empty.

even with the friendly fire, I think 2v2 is something that has potential to be good and competitive.

but 1v1 dueling at it's current state is really impossible to make work without some really dramatic game-changing rules set in place, and dramatic changes will cause different items to be BIS. I just don't think it'll attract too many players to the league if that's the case.

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[Damx]

well, maybe cut the thing in half and ban cc or cd ? cc will be alot easier to cut imo. i wonder how could that work

[mannercookie]

well, maybe cut the thing in half and ban cc or cd ? cc will be alot easier to cut imo. i wonder how could that work

if we ban CC/CD, we might as well ban all the gear in  game and limit it to naked fights with blue weapons.

this is ofc due to the fact that without CC/CD, players have too much mitigation/regen/skills/passives/etc. that allow them to survive, meaning ofc an endless duel.

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[Damx]

well cutting cd maybe, but cutting cc will lead to stacking max cd on char - resulting lucky crit could win the game .. hmm - with other lmitations cutting cc could work

[Euronymous]

Totally agree with mannercookie here. Limits like that will only make d3cl less popular. Who wants to spend weeks of searching and billions of gold for gear with which you get raped even in public games and which is only viable in the microcosm that is d3cl?

People want to register with their #1 PvP-Dummy, #1 whatever chars and be able to duel right away with only minor adjustments.
For me, like I already mentioned before, minor adjustments would mean banning certain skills in certain match-ups.
I consider banning certain overpowered items as minor adjustments too, though right now I don't see any overpowered items yet. Biggest differences probably come from the choice of weapons (1h+shield/offhand, dual wield, 2hander), but they all have their pros/cons.

Major changes like altering equipment or destroying gear/build synergies should be the last resort and not implemented until minor changes have been proven to be insufficient.

[Damx]

its all about making, a long term league .. and maybe that league will evolve into something that is worth playing .. not like now, #1pvp dummy overkill .. but it will take time, and all sugestions for now are just open minded discussion

[error]

Limiting gear is not an option because it is not the problem. The problem is the exploit of game mechanics (built-playstyle). D3 gear, classes and skills are designed and balanced one arround the other and interfering with that will bring more problems than solutions.

Let's list the problems we actually detected so far:

- Class imbalances: WDs rule and Wizzards are bad. Skill mechanics between classes are not balanced for pvp.
- Stalemates:
  - Tank vs Low DPS: one or both opponents unable to kill the other. There's no challenge here.
  - Run for Regen:
    - Cat vs Mouse: outrun and hide waiting for regeneration or big cooldowns. Lame tactics if it gets exploited.
    - Mouse vs Mouse: this situation is the natural response to Cat vs Mouse. If you don't do this you will likely lose. Lesser lame tactics.
- 1 shot encounters: Some class-builts are favored by map positioning. First round advantage is easily held until victory. Results are extremely dependant in luck.
- Gear Bait-&-Switch: Some classes have a loose skill-gear coupling and receive extreme advantage with weapon and armor switch during encounters.

If you detect any other different problem please post its definition.

Proposed solutions:
- Class imbalances: Make a win/loss matrix with all encounters data and see what class-vs-class encounters need some kind of skill/rune limitation.
- Stalemates: More than 5 minutes rounds make no sense to me. Timeout could be a solution.
  - Tank vs Low DPS: IMO this shouldn't be allowed by any means. No player should be allowed to use a pure tanking built in the first round. Referee request?
  - Run for Regen: 5 minute timeout and the "mouse" opponent should lose the round.
    - Cat vs Mouse: one opponent at any time should be able to request a recess and get the presence of a referee that will spot the mouse and control the timeout.
    - Mouse vs Mouse: this not a real problem if there's a ref.
- 1 shot encounters: As mannercookie said, encounters should end with a streak of 3 or 4 consecutive wins or the best of 30 minutes duelling.
- Gear Bait-&-Switch: this is an honestity problem. I think built and gear should be able to switch if agreed even during the encounter but both parties should come town and check for the changes. As a solution I can only imagine to make a full blues inventory trade under request.

[Lilith]

Imo in WD vs DH wd should have banned spirit vessel.

[Iria]

As highlighted by error:

There are too many cases of stalemates (either players can't kill each other due to regen or running away to regen) and 1-hit-KO encounters (most DH vs DH match-ups I have seen).

The 1-hit-KO fights are almost solely luck based since the classes involved are usually DEX heavy and thus depend on dodge and also require critical hits (which at least can be nullified with Sharpshooter). Lastly, those fights are more of a rock-paper-scissors duel, basically each DH pops smokescreen, runs to a position, and gets ready to react and snipe the other DH in their short window of visibility. If you happen to be aiming in the correct direction you win lol.

The run away for regen fights (particularly employed by Barbarians) usually results in a stalemate unless the "cat" or ranged player overextends and chases the "mouse" too far. These fights are easily stalemated by just retreating indefinitely.

I would wait until 4v4 team play is allowed or at the very least, 2v2, since it allows balance of classes by numbers. The larger the opposing forces are, the harder it is to create an unkillable tank or run away from a large group of players.

[mannercookie]

I had an interesting duel today with a monk with pretty much top-end gear.

I really think blizzard tried to somewhat balance around BIS possible rolls on gear, so we should wait until more ppl figure out the best gearing potentials and figure out specs before starting to try and create rules for any form of competitive league.

it's just too early in the patch and pvp hasn't quite picked up yet to the point that good players are attracted to the game.

here's the clip for those interested, the second set of 10 was much less RNG dependent and felt more based off capitalizing on each other's mistakes.

clip of first set of 10 first spec from testing, http://www.twitch.tv/mannercookie/c/1960729
clip of testing specs, http://www.twitch.tv/mannercookie/c/1967567
clip of second set of 10 new spec, http://www.twitch.tv/mannercookie/c/1967615

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[Damx]

post that monk btag =]

[Forti]

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/23/screenshot038iq.jpg/

is it right, that I cant rejoin game between rounds for reset cd? Or I have to wait for this.. between round ofc.

[Spirals]

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/23/screenshot038iq.jpg/

is it right, that I cant rejoin game between rounds for reset cd? Or I have to wait for this.. between round ofc.

To clear it up: you can rejoin games between rounds - just like it is stated in the rules.
In a particular game between the user Pino and Rex were duelling with alot of quarreling: I forbade them this because they were haggling around and being ugly so I kept them ingame. Maybe Pino figured it out wrong.

[Forti]

yes, this is possible. We done duel, so it's closed.

[mannercookie]

post that monk btag =]

king#11810

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