Print

[Lilith]

another thing, banning inspiring presence propagate only 1 tactic....kamping and waiting for 2 crit rends within preparation cooldow...lol even half naked dh would win this matchup...

as for testing

I own predsr every match we play cause I out gear him and he is very bad at kitinng..on new rules I don't stand any chance..so now imagine I play with guy like Majestic..LOL

Stop crying all the time. Be a man and if u lose with your really good gear, when aother barbs with weaker items wins that mean u have to work at your skill. Sad but true.

[Iria]

I have duelled alot of demonhunters aswell with natalya's soul and wrath from 350 to 525 k dps.

I just did duel with Lilith , Barbarian versus DH, 10-3 for the barbarian

You went 10-3 with or without Inspiring Presence?

[DaRkE]

I have duelled alot of demonhunters aswell with natalya's soul and wrath from 350 to 525 k dps.

I just did duel with Lilith , Barbarian versus DH, 10-3 for the barbarian

You went 10-3 with or without Inspiring Presence?

Without

[zee]

I have duelled alot of demonhunters aswell with natalya's soul and wrath from 350 to 525 k dps.

I just did duel with Lilith , Barbarian versus DH, 10-3 for the barbarian

You went 10-3 with or without Inspiring Presence?

Without

is this on EU?

Would like to see you do the same vs. a couple of DH's in Americas.

No hex vs. barbs .... have fun getting getting 1 - 2 shotted by HOTA.

You may have tested vs. MC on PTR but a lot of his specs/gear setups have changed since then.

[DaRkE]

Unfortenatly my friend that is not possible at the moment, but without doubt regarding any game or genre top players in different regions are always at approximatly the same skill level.

The builds also develop in all regions not always in the same direction but always for the better.

I think standalone this argument is not valid.

[Euronymous]

It would help others to evaluate your testing if you posted the chars involved and state the main class of the testers.
No offense, but I find it hard to believe that one can use multiple chars ("tested extensively wd vs. barb", "tested natalya's soul and wrath") to their fullest potential.

Also you are changing a lot more than just "no wotb, no hex" in that match-up. Most barbs as well as WDs agree that this will lead to more fun duels because playing with a 2min CD that gives you a 15s window to kill your opponent is stupid.
While testing this, it looks like you found out that it's too hard for WDs to take down a high HP barb with tons of regen and relentless. This is probably true, but I really don't get your solution for it:
No spirit vessel for WD means no second life and about 15% higher cooldowns on spirit walk and horrify. Also no shield, but you can't afford to use a shield anyway vs. barbs because you will lack dps.
Barbs will just say fuck regen (inspiring presence), stack enough dps to 1-2 shot and go for a quick kill with HotA. They don't even have to be careful about when to engage anymore because there is no Hex. All WD can do is spirit walk and fear once (maybe stun once with a 60s cooldown) and then pray that the barb won't come near them for the next 12s.
So if you felt that in "no hex, no wotb" barbs are a little superior, the additional rules certainly widen the gap. My suggestion would be that you test changes similar to "barb vs. wiz", i.e. reduce the mobility of barbs a bit. From a barbs point of view with sprint marathon and charge it almost looks like WDs are moving in slow motion.

[GREEN2172]

Dh can endlessly kite barb..if barb has no possibility to regen 4-5k hp is dead within 30 seconds...

Kite skill cost 8dysc+4dysc next jump, so 2 jumps=12dysc. All new nat users have 70-80 MAX dysc, so it's 5-6x2=10-12 jumps. After that we can have again 10-12 jumps if we don't use SS, and after this 20-24 jumps we are defenseless without dyscypline or jumps to kite for 45 seconds, so you are wrong with "endlessly kite"... maybe legacy nat users can do that but it's not my problem - set rules against new nat users and legacy nat users;]

[kaio]

Sure, that's bound to happen if the rules stay this way. But since the rules are not in place yet, I might as well try to argue and prevent that from happening, right? Spirals specifically asked for feedback on WD because they are not sure yet. That's why I'm pointing out that they are going the wrong direction with Spirit Walk/Vessel bans. Other classes often whine about Haunt and banning Haunt in some cases will not break the WD class. That would be a much smarter restriction and WDs are actually able to work around that with other skills.

The wording of the rules vs. Wizard seems to be redundant or wrong btw.
-   The Witch Doctor can use either “Spirit Walk” or “Spirit Vessel” but not both.
-   In duels versus the “Wizard” the skill “Spirit Walk” is not allowed.
-   In duels versus the “Wizard” the Witch Doctor is not allowed to use “Spirit Walk”, “Summon Zombie Dogs” or “Gargantuan”.

While were at it. Have you faced a WD that could beat you without spirit walk, pets, shield and hex/horrify, kaio?

I thing there is samthing wrong on words thx to point it out.
I tested vs keen and blud but both use shield (I'll ask athers why banned also vs wiz)
With shield and those rules duels end all with wins on both sides and really close.
I'd like to test with on arena instead on forum with a post and also I think u shuld speak with blud and keen and ask them...

To make it clear for all:
No1 here is tring to make rules for his own chracter... If rules are set this way is cose we tested them on arena and not on forum (ofc wz vs wd there is a mistake on shield and we will fix it)

To all: get out of there and test !!! Find new tattics and come back with feedback

[GREEN2172]

To all: get out of there and test !!! Find new tattics and come back with feedback

My class with new nat don't get any serious nerf, I'm just angry that if you don't ban pets for WD and Inspiring Presence for barb I will be forced to buy A LOT of gold for money and try to convince some old DH to set his good legacy set. It's not good to force ppl to search&buy items that Blizzard deleted from game drop;] Legacy nat users can kite all the time - we not, legacy nat users can spam ss - we not - that's main reason why all barbs and WD consider DH like "OP" enemy, but it's possible only with legacy set.

For example: Jump cost 8dysc, second jump 4 dysc - legacy nat users can use one jump 0,5s and after that he have 2s +60 speed from passive->next jump 0,5s +2s +60 speed. 5 seconds kiting cost 12 dysc, and they regenerate 2dysc/1s from set +1dysc/1s normally = 3d/1s. In 5 seconds they will spend 12 dysc and gain 15 dysc;]

If you don't want to ban items like legacy nat set just make rules against new nat set and legacy nat set - for example new nat users are near to impossible to kill equaly geared barb with Inspiring Presence, but legacy set users can kite them all the time and they have a chance, we not.

[Iria]

I find much of these topics funny. I do quite well with my non-legacy Natalya's set. If Inspiring Presence gets banned, and WD's pets/shield get banned, I will likely go completely unopposed by anything other than a better DH. Even Mystical, the best legacy Nat DH I have encountered in Americas, struggled with me and there were some duels which were luck based in that dodges became the deciding factor. I think Cyon might now be the best legacy DH in Americas since he invested billions in the very best legacy Nat set lol. Also, we have other very good non-legacy DH: Myon and Revrac who do very very well against anything! I am trying to follow in their footsteps and at least get into the top 10 DH in Americas eventually.

[GREEN2172]

I have no problems with legacy set DH - with Lilith who have a lot better eq (Lilith manti cost 6x more then my all items) i losed 3:5 last 2 fights. I'm only saying that legacy set give an advantage compare with non-legacy in duel against for example barbs, and it's not fair to force ppl to buy items banned from game drop;]

[devilek666]

Green Darke I beg Your pardon, but tell me, where in a league You are placed? What gear do You have? oh sory,. one of You doesn't even play in a league.

You said, that You wanna do testing on high end gear but all I can see, that You balance with Your average gear against average DH gear. Saying that You won with legacy and non legacy nat, could be true but this doesn't proove anything..Cause You and green are both far away FROM TOP END GEAR..

Another thing, You don't wanna ban gear, but You just banned my and other barbs 4b+ gear who invested into items that give me big relentless zone and I can kill things in this zone...now i would need completly new gear...is that balancing?

Did You bother to watch a link I posted? MC changed his gear A LOT since PTR..
I'm highest ranked barb in this league and no one listens what I think...If You make such a stupid rules I will go to another league, so less skilled people can be ranked higher.. Green You can stop crying now DH will be op.

any good DH will be undefeated now. So atm if DH loose against non inspiring presence barb is really retarded dh..

p.s. You don't even  listen to DH's..some of them already said that this change is a Joke.

You didn't even bother to balance between legacy nat and non legacy nat..

[GREEN2172]

@Devil: this topic was made to get feedback from players. I'm playing and you too, we both can express our point of view.
If you weren't in rule dev team so ask admins why (as you said in your opinion you are best barb here then you should develop rules;]).

"any good DH will be undefeated now." - in first league WD were undefeated and that's why admins must set new rules. If DH will be OP in second league they gonna change rules. Where is the problem? PvP in d3 just started, it needs a time to develop good rules, maybe first we will test it in next season? No only cry "If You make such a stupid rules I will go to another league"?

[devilek666]

I see..you just wanna be on top next season

[Mr.Mag]

a short pre-2nd season tournament to test this rules is a must.