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[chucknorris#1885]

what is it you do not like about my suggestion? I think removing attacks instead of def skills is a much better option to ballance. wiz does have some very effective offence with tele with wave of force rune + blast + wave of force. with good micro can dish out 900+ wep dmg instantly just too many wiz give up on pvp before finding good pvp build but also they are lacking in def against dots imo. thats why i suggest remove the dots attack vs them.

[IMP-Executioner]

I have the same opinion as many of you.

The more we play and the more we try we figure out that blizz gave us so many things to try and to counter nearly every shit we feel its op at first. The more i play the more i get the feeling that this game @ max-gear-lvl is much more balanced than everyone thought.

But we all need months maybe years to gear up further and to test all our possibilities.

But this leaque season 2 starts soon. An so far only 2 or 3 sorc played with us there. So its the right way to go if u give them some advantage just that we get players here to test.

Dh vs. Barb i have the same opinion. In my eyes the most of our dh lack a bit on skill in positioning, aiming and timing in using recourses offensively. Furthermore their pvp gear cost billions and most dont even can affort the needed gear.
For barb u can counter that 90% geared dh too easy at the moment just if u go vita-easymode. Will change the day a skilled, perfect geared dh arrives. He will hunt us down as dear^^

Until that day comes we also have to buff dh in that setup just to hold em in the leaque and to give the chance to test new skills.

well, thats what i think

[KNHO]

@Exe
There will never be much "perfect geared", "skilled" DH´s. In my whole D2 playtime, i´ve only met 4-5 realy good Amazons. That´s why i say the same thing as mentioned by someone before, make the rules looking up to the best in the league. If you take the best Barbs in last season, and look at their stats against the best DH´s, you don´t need to talk about "We need to buff Dh´s, till they learn how to play", because i´m pretty sure, those few good DH´s know what to do, how to gear, and how to play, so there must be another problem with that. When season 2 comes, remember my words, even without warcry 95% of the DH´s in this league will still loos vs Barbarians )
The other 5% will still kill all average Barbs, and go on loosing to the top 5% of the barbs.

@Admins remember what i said "Forbid the upper left corner" for Barbs. There are enough other places to camp.

[Iria]

After some bouts with Tbone today, I think my Impale - Impact strategy is very effective until he uses Juggernaut passive. However, I can just not use Impact and he then wastes a passive. However, once he switches it to another passive, I can reequip Impact. And then he switches to Juggernaut, and then I equip Chemical Burn, and then he switches to another passive, and then I switch to Impact, and then he switches to Juggernaut, and then I equip Chemical Burn, and then he switches to another passive, and then I switch to Impact, and then he switches to Juggernaut, and then I equip Chemical Burn, and then he switches to another passive, and then I switch to Impact, and then he switches to Juggernaut, and then I equip Chemical Burn, and then he switches to another passive, and then I switch to Impact, and then he switches to Juggernaut, and then I equip Chemical Burn, and then he switches to another passive, and then I switch to Impact, and then he switches to Juggernaut, and then I equip Chemical Burn, and then he switches to another passive, and then I switch to Impact, and then he switches to Juggernaut, and then I equip Chemical Burn, and then he switches to another passive, and then I switch to Impact, and then he switches to Juggernaut, and then I equip Chemical Burn, and then he switches to another passive, and then I switch to Impact, and then he switches to Juggernaut, and then I equip Chemical Burn, and then he switches to another passive, and then I switch to Impact, and then he switches to Juggernaut, and then I equip Chemical Burn, and then he switches to another passive, and then I switch to Impact, and then he switches to Juggernaut, and then I equip Chemical Burn, and then he switches to another passive, and then I switch to Impact, and then he switches to Juggernaut, and then I equip Chemical Burn, and then he switches to another passive, and then I switch to Impact, and then he switches to Juggernaut, and then I equip Chemical Burn, and then he switches to another passive, and then I switch to Impact, and then he switches to Juggernaut, and then I equip Chemical Burn, and then he switches to another passive, and then I switch to Impact, and then he switches to Juggernaut, and then I equip Chemical Burn, and then he switches to another passive, and then I switch to Impact, and then he switches to Juggernaut, and then I equip Chemical Burn, and then he switches to another passive, and then I switch to Impact, and then he switches to Juggernaut, and then I equip Chemical Burn, and then he switches to another passive, and then I switch to Impact, and then he switches to Juggernaut, and then I equip Chemical Burn, and then he switches to another passive, and then I switch to Impact, and then he switches to Juggernaut, and then I equip Chemical Burn, and then he switches to another passive, and then I switch to Impact, and then he switches to Juggernaut, and then I equip Chemical Burn, and then he switches to another passive, and then I switch to Impact, and then he switches to Juggernaut, and then I equip Chemical Burn, and then he switches to another passive, and then I switch to Impact, and then he switches to Juggernaut, and then I equip Chemical Burn, and then he switches to another passive, and then I switch to Impact, and then he switches to Juggernaut, and then I equip Chemical Burn, and then he switches to another passive, and then I switch to Impact, and then he switches to Juggernaut, and then I equip Chemical Burn, and then he switches to another passive, and then I switch to Impact, and then he switches to Juggernaut, and then I equip Chemical Burn, and then he switches to another passive, and then I switch to Impact

......... you now see the problem with the rule?

"When the two players have agreed on what to wear they will both do a confirmation of their opponents equipment by writing "okay" in the chatbox."

Quote from the movie War Games:
"The best winning move is not to play."

[RoGH]

We are aware of that problem and we have a solution what to do when both sides cant come to an agreement, but before showing all cards we would like to see how often it will be like this

[DaRkE]

IMP-Exec is spot on and definitivly a correct understanding about how the process overvveiw looks.
I encourage all to read his post a second time.

As he specify it will take time and there are still development by players aswell as blizzard.

In Diablo 2 it took several season's and in the end for a stable patch before pvp in synergy with the rules became really well and joyfull competative pvp.

I think it is very imporant for everyone to understand as he points out that we balance the rules around the current metagame and knowledge we do have about the game.

Aswell as in some situatuation one choice is made above another that might favor one class, but it will not decide the outcome of the match.

Here is a demonstration of a monk with really high mitigation and almosted maxxed out % elite and ranged reduction.

-The Monk's  armor, resist and reduced elite % damage is beyond what a gear set supports to give you the damage you need to actually kill the demonhunter.

-The demonhunter is in Full legacy set, with 72 k HP and approx 400 resi.

-Demonstratee how much the monk in the current 'tank' setup does versus dh , when the dh afk and take the 7ss head on.

-Demonstrate the aim angle impale requires, that is to be compared with how impale is aimed and how haunt is aimed( I will post WD video shortly)

It demonstates the damage of a both a hit and the burn effect there after.

The damageoutput demonhunter can perform on a monk, even with legacy set is the reason the topic chemical burn is up for discussion.

It shoud be fairly simple for the dh to hit monk a few times without getting struck by 7ss.

The gameplay for monk relies to predict were the demonhunter is going to exit smokescreen and precast you r 7ss at that position so that you are allready in animation when she leave the 0.5 second gap between ss.

Here is a demonstration of the same monk, with increadible mitigation and almost maxxed out % elite and reduction.

- The monk's armor and resist and reduced elite % dmg is beyond what a gear set supports to give you the damage you need to actually kill the wd.
- The wd just use some intelegence gear I had from before on wizard, and alot of it is based upon attack speed and does not support really well haunt damage.
-Demonstrate the aim angle of haunt compared to impale.
-It demonstrates the damage of one critical hit with haunt.
-Note that a balanced monk with damage to support an actuall kill will die out of 1 haunt. The cooldown on all monk's and witch doctors abilities are all in favor of wd so you cannot win by manage the cooldowns.
Aswell as you must have serenity ready in the 3 following situation
Haunt Crit
Hex
Fear
Wich the cooldown of serenity does not support.

I really do hope this explain a little bit of the situation to the community, why there are currently considerations of banning Haunt and Impale.

/Hug and thank you all again for taking such an interess to help develop and share your experience in the matchups so far.[/color]

[chucknorris#1885]

Darke that is some interesting stuff but doesnt change the fact that for a monk to go def vs wd is a big mistake and in fact monk is the hardest class for wd to play against if monk has good micro. actually this match up very much favors monk if proper gear (2h) and good micro is learned.

you are proposing handicap for monk vs wd simply to compensate monks bad choice in build and gear and lack of micro skills. even undergeared monk can defeat worlds best gear wd with mastery of map control and micro. if you implement handicap monks will stop progressing skills and simply rely on handicap to even match up.

[Euronymous]

Chuck, you have to put the general rules in the picture. It's first to 5 with the option to rejoin after each round. I don't like the odds for monks to reach 5 first if they go all out offense against a WD with spirit vessel and the ability to get double-kills at will with haunt.
Well it's still better than to go defensive and lose 0-5, but balanced dueling is something else for me.

[Iria]

We are aware of that problem and we have a solution what to do when both sides cant come to an agreement, but before showing all cards we would like to see how often it will be like this

Ok, good! Just as long as there is something that can be done for these encounters. I suppose two obvious solutions could be (1) cancel challenge or (2) both players gear up in secret and can't change once they view each other; however, that decides the duel by a coin toss lol.

[Forti]

monk mistyc ally with Eternal Ally rune.

it's bugged? when I die, it is still alive - when my opponent kill it (I'm still dead) after 3 sec it comes to alive again... and again and again.. I even won one round with this...

[Iria]

Just add the rule: when the monk dies, the round is over. Or once the Mystic Ally dies for the first time after the monk dies the round is over.

[Forti]

when monk dies? no... It doesnt make sens.

if the ally die after me then ok... that make sens ofc.

[GREEN2172]

Two conclusions:
1. Balanced ehp-dps DH  and ehp-dps Barb can kill each other.
2. EHP DH vs EHP Barb cannot kill each other and fight lasts an hour. As you can see on movie it was senseless fight until he changed during round to more DPS, and in league we cannot change items in fight so this could last an hour.

Dunno what idea devs have to solve this. Maybe rule that DPS cannot be lower then x% of EHP - this will eliminate stalemates and 1h senseless fights.

And greetings to "OMG OMG OMG" nofear:D

[ricebowl]

EHP is not the problem, massive regen combined with high mobility is.  Both players have high mobility and high regen = stalemate.

[MysticaL]

Green, I checked out your gear, I think your gear is good enough to beat some pretty crazy geared barbs. Maybe from the video you said DH EHP gear vs Barb EHP gear. Why EHP gear vs Barb?

From my perspective, the only way a barb can win is if they just keep pressuring (and running at you) with insane eHP and force you to burn all your discipline, and lowering your DPS makes it much easier for barbs to do this. But for someone with 400K (non-IAS) sharpshooter DPS & legacy, it's more than enough to knock out 200K+ HP barbs.

I would suggest to try being more offensive by using Steady Aim though. Thrill of the hunt isn't good anymore, it was only good during PTR when the barbs had PvE gear

Also why use Boar?  It's not very useful in general vs barbs, try using mark for death. You're basically losing 20% from steady, 12% from mark. 1.20 * 1.12 = 1.34. That's losing 34% damage...

And maybe use an inna's belt vs barbs. 8% pure damage from the belt alone beats a witching hour DPS wise (50 crit dmg can't compare to +8%, and IAS... is not damage), let alone the extra +130 dex, as long as you're at 350-400+ resist all & 70k+ HP it's enough vs barbs

damn, I should have recorded my duels with Nofear today and Devil yesterday, I did very well against both of them even with my current gear lol (however I did get destroyed by Blud >_>)