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[ximae]

yeah, the rf with missiles gives dh a lot more burst than impale.

At least modify the rules to allow all runes on wc, dodge rune seems like a must vs those missiles.

didn't saw that bunker mode is back on ban list...if dhs use turrets and circle them to heal is this bunker mode? I will sure abuse the "print screen" button if I see one of them again do that coupled with rapid fire


I just saw that venxosiz defeated katmpb 5-0. I don't know if the dh is top gear or not but I do know that katmpb is one of the best geared barbs in eu, seems a bit weird.

ah yeah i was forgetting u guys werent allowed to use runes on warcry coz i was a bit wtf coz i remember testing with u in ptr, just before i did my skorn dmg test, my dh with rf and i was doing crap dmg (with like 230k dps with soj) yeah i was using webshot and cull of the weak not ballistics but it must have been the dodge rune which is soo good vs channels. Also ip was still at 4% then though.

[KNHO]

To set a point in the RF discussion, there was several times told "Making rules depending on top players".
If there will be 2-3 DH´s who will be able to destroy Vimer with RF and Balistics, we can talk about allow WC and more vs Rf users 

[DarkRaven]

the problem is that i dont think there are top dhs with non-legacy gear in d3cl now. (when i say top i mean at least 350-400k unbuffed with close to 1 mil ehp, although there are some with much more than that)

dunno what gear venxosiz has, he has some parts missing now, maybe he is one of the top.

@ximae, yeah, rapid fire without the rockets and balistics didnt seem to do much, and indeed the ptr regen of barbs was bugged, but from what i saw its pretty imba damage.

i agree that there are weak points, like having to stay still to channel, and dhs are vulnerable to wotb, also if they use a more static build barbs have the movement speed advantage (if they arent stunned) and can reset the game until they have ignore pain again.

[N0F3aR]

Hi,
Just played with Med and Lilth and tested their new Rapid fire build. It seems they deal high dmg and i think the rune Impunity of War Cry is nesecary against decent dh in future. Also the others dh i've met use the same build and its hitting a lot. So what you say about allowing Impunity again, since dh has such big dmg output (nearly 800% weap dmg on rockets). Also its seems that rapid fire requires no much hatred, so dh has like np with the resours using this skill.

[KNHO]

You guys are funny, last season most Dh´s have been buttwiped by Barbs.
Now DH got a bit stronger, and you begin to think about nurfing them right from the start.
Think more about WD´s. They´ve shit on all in season 1, and they go on shitting on all in season 2.
Once again i quote you guys "Make rules depended on best players".
I´m ok with buffing Barb vs DH if Vimer looses 2-3 fights vs average RF DH´s If he doesn´t, the comment "L2p, Use your brain" would be right in place, wouldn´t it?

[predsr]

Hi,
Just played with Med and Lilth and tested their new Rapid fire build. It seems they deal high dmg and i think the rune Impunity of War Cry is nesecary against decent dh in future. Also the others dh i've met use the same build and its hitting a lot. So what you say about allowing Impunity again, since dh has such big dmg output (nearly 800% weap dmg on rockets). Also its seems that rapid fire requires no much hatred, so dh has like np with the resours using this skill.

Where did you get the 800% math from?

Rapidfire is only np hatred if its constant channelling, if you can get a Dh to stop firing in between, they will be using 20 hatred per start/stop

[N0F3aR]

1. I am not saying nurf DH, i say allow Impunity (War cry rune)
2. Predsr, 1 dh told me that about 800% weap dmg. Almost all dh say skill is bugged/op. But 800% or less, this skills does really a lot of dmg, also with the passive that immobilize the target the opposite hero of DH is disabled like always(every 7 sec cd), since the rockets (rune of that rapid fire) always autoaim the targed even beyond walls. Med toke me 150-160 k life like np in 2 sec when i go out of IP. And that is with 1040 Phys resist, 11100 armor, 28 % elite dmg reduction, 11% range reduction. I had to take off unforgiving and take both relentless + nerves of steel to be able to survive. An that cost me high mobility on the map. Or using WotB with very good timing.
! I am not saying "Nurfs DH". Just i think Barbs need full power of protection against that "rapid fire" build.
And KHNO is right,
WD is still mega imba. His survive ability is nearly as barb, but the dmg output is great. Actually not bats are the biggest problem especially Barb vs WD, but the life regen and disable that decent wd has.

[DarkRaven]

I think that dhs have to give up a lot of mobility for rf, they cant really kite a lot, like with impales, they get a lot more rends.

I played vs venxosiz yesterday and he actually streamed it, here is the vid

http://www.twitch.tv/venxosiz/b/404687873 - the duel starts at about 1.00.00, it was 5-1 but we tested some more afterwards.

i first started with wotb to abuse the somehow more imobile rf build, it did ok but he actually moves a lot, which is good. after round 2 or 3 i switched to marauder rage because i noticed that even my non-wotb crits were decent.

after the duel i tried skorn, but I was too squishy, it did work with 1000 dex on gear but pretty low dps for skorn, it could be ok with a skorn with 300+ dex but only vs tanky dhs.

than i tried same build as in the duel but with treatening shout instead of marauder and it actually did ok too, the identical build that i use vs legacy dhs, both gear and skills, having enough fury at all times is nice.

at the very end i tried my tankiest spec vs his most dps, it took him 18 sec to kill me which is very good, a lot of skorn barbs with insanity hota rend couldnt kill me in that spec standing still.

i agree i could have used also overpower for more defense to at least get to 2nd ignore pain, but still the dps was huge.
that final test was with dodge rune on impunity, 44.7 dodge buffed, 950 AR, 12k arm, 32 block, -35 vs elites etc, no dps

I havent yet tested vs legacy and i dont think rf advantages them, because they rely on kiting and not getting rended, they cant really tank too many rends.

it may be ok in the current league as i dont see many top dhs with non legacy gear, but really good ones with 350k dps unbuffed and decent ehp should destroy any barb

[N0F3aR]

DarkRaven,
Venxosiz is good dh, in my duel against him he surprized me with his rapid fire build and leaded almost all the time. Finnaly i won 5-3, in the moment i find correct build i turned the game in my favor. But Med and Lilth i think have more pvp potential so far ( no offense, venxosiz,they are at least experienced players). The fights with them were harder and closer. Also Lilth played with legacy nata and wasnt easy as you think.

[DarkRaven]

yeah, I agree that there are better dhs out there, dunno how legacy dhs use rf, I didn't yet test, I don't think they are easy but rf style doesn't seem to suit their kiting style.

indeed predsr and med seem to be really good legacy dhs gear wise and they should do very well vs barbs in d3cl

[Euronymous]

@DHs
Checked the latest results and found these two quite interesting

predsr#2228 vs  brx#2821 2013-05-18  3:5 
brx#2821 vs  Emmett#2681 2013-05-16  1:5 

I obviously don't know what happened in these duels, but, assuming all players played at their normal level, it looks like a nice example of how different gear/build choices affect the outcome of a match.
DHs have so many options now that most WDs don't use Firebats, all these CC/stun melee builds become very effective. Tank builds with 4% regen could be effective. It's up to you to gear in a way that you don't get randomly 1-shot by Spirit Barrage.
It's far from proven that good new nats/bt DHs don't have a chance under current rules. I don't blame you if you are not willing to spend another 10B+ on a new nat set, but you can't really complain if you are using an outdated set from almost a year ago as a "one for all".
Unfortunately Emmett loses to a lot of non-WDs, so we might not see Insane vs. him anytime soon.

[N0F3aR]

Euro,
And what you say about Barb vs WD?  I mean Vimer could be not counted since i think he outgears any1 on this season( my opinion - his pieces are very very rare on ah, gj).

[DarkRaven]

lol insane only lost 1 round (to mokkal) in all the rounds except the game lost to vimer.

they are on a different gear level than the others.

those pieces u don't find on ah nofear, u have to look on various sites like Diabloprogress and talk to seller, when u have the billions for them , at that level you pay billions for 20-30 vit, it may seem not that important but it adds up in the end.

[DarkRaven]

there is also a lack of communication between players, regarding builds, like in the example Euro gave.

 players with less gear can perform better than others with more expensive gear, using optimal builds, sometimes 1 skill can change a game from a 0-5 to 5-0.

I also see players like katmb, his spear alone is worth more than the gear of the top 10 combined ( except vimer and insane) yet he loses vs guys that me and nofear 5-0, and I bet there are others that just don't know the proper builds... and in the known builds I'm sure there is still room for improvement.

if insane shared some strats that worked against him, if any, maybe other players would have a shot too.

[VenX]

Hi,
So what you say about allowing Impunity again, since dh has such big dmg output (nearly 800% weap dmg on rockets)

You missunderstood me when I mentioned dps from rapid fire, the rockets them self don't do that much damage. formula for rapid fire should be BASE: 438 * ATTACKSPEED + ROCKETS: 145 * BALLISTIC(1.5) * 2 Rockets, in my pvp setup 1158 % Weapon Damage/s. The rockets them self hits for 435 and that is when you channeled for atleast 1 sec.