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[MoKKaL]

Insane lost 1 round against me, because he used a shield in the first game - the match was VERY close.
After that - he used a dmg off-hand and the dmg was too "insane" - like in most WD MU's.

thats the reason i won 1 round - just to mention it

[DarkRaven]

Is he at least at the same level with blud and euronymous? because i think that euro was even better... and his EF helped a lot.

vimer managed to have a balanced game with pretty close to absolute best gear for barb, I checked a lot of profiles of good pvp barbarians from around the world and vimer has pretty much the closest to optimal gear.

[N0F3aR]

Insane has decent gear, but i am not sure he is on the level that were( are) Blud and Euro (regarding items). I think Vimer outgear him (no offense).
Dark Raven, you are right about Diabloprogress and the items you find there, but Vimer's stuff is very rare even there. I checked about barb pvp items, but there we few, and almost all of them werent for sale.

[MoKKaL]

tbh ... i dont notice any difference when im dead so fast

[Euronymous]

His gear is about 5-10b while Blud and me were in the 50-100b price range. Judging from the inspect in venxosiz twitch video I'd say he has about the same damage (~300k vs. elite +barrage bonus) but probably ~25% less EHP and less utility (no fear proc, no hp bonus on pots).

So, while the price difference is huge it's not necessarily a huge difference ingame. Like mokkal said, if you die in a few seconds, possibly in the duration of a spirit walk, it doesn't really matter how much EHP the WD has.
Same goes for DHs and Monks, in my opinion only Barb and Wiz heavily rely on gear since they don't have temporal invulnerability.

That being said, you really should be able to kill this WD (except for Wiz). I think right now a lot of you suffer from a lack of testing. One reason being that it's hard to test builds and tactics if there are almost no players to test with left. The other being that some of you make the rules your scapegoat for losing instead of trying to improve your game.

For Wiz instead of the 1 out of 4 rule, a 0 out of 3 (barrage, leaping spiders, firebats) would probably be better.

[DarkRaven]

i have a question about stalemates

in the event of a stalemate are both players required to up dps or not?

i just played vs a very tanky tempest rush monk, he didnt change any gear in the game, although i easily tanked him in first rounds. without tempest it was 1-0 for me, than we both died 2-1, after that he used TR without changing any gear but i had to add a lot of dps and drop ehp. he kept insisting he cant up the dps although he had 80k hp with bt set and 140k dps. I went from my normal 60k dps up to 85-90k, so basically 50% more dps and a big ehp drop, also using more fury generating skills to catch his ever running tempest rush. (this may seem like low dps but it's actually pretty normal dps of barbs vs monks)

questions:

1. were we both supposed to up dps? he basically kept his ehp while adding the ever running tempest rush
2. if i chose to just stalemate after 1-0 or 2-1 would i have won the match or it would have to be canceled? if i just refuse to up dps on gear, like he did

it's not a rant, although tanky tempest rush monks are the most stalemate build in the game, but a question to know how i will play against this kind of spec in the future, because my intention now is to just go with max ehp and refuse to change any gear whenever i face tempest rush with tank gear.

[N0F3aR]

I think gonna be good some promotion about the league in sites. 41 players is like nothing compared to 300+ 1st season.

[DarkRaven]

I fought again vs insane, he had 100k hp and still enough dps to kill me in my tankiest spec

i tried with normal build, and i got him once in wotb to about 15% hp but it was clearly no chance for me, it probably means I'm outgeared, like almost all players here, except vimer who is probably in the 50-100B gear range.

seems that the most important skills for barb vs good wd are:
1. how to chase and stun the wd when he runs around a rock while u have wotb
2. how to run for 1.45minutes around the map without getting hit too much by the 1000-yards-over-the-wall skills.

I will share how i do it, maybe better barbs or wds can tell me how to do it better.

basically i use superstition for full fury when hit by haunt. I try to pop wotb right at the beginning of a big haunt, while still having warcry available for more fury... ideally i would want to pop it right after he uses a spirit walk, but it's hard.
also i use charge stun and i have to have it available when i pop wotb.

after i pop wotb, haunt still almost fills my fury, and i also have wc for more fury, first i charge and try to stun because charge has 10 sec cd, so i can get 2 charges in the 15 seconds of insanity. if i can hit both stuns while he doesnt yet have spirit walk maybe i can do something, but the chances are very slim, especially when they run around tight corners, very hard to catch with charge.

bash clobber may be a good idea for when in wotb but you have to do some damage even before wotb, and charge has a bit of cc protection vs hex.

zombie dogs are a big thing, even if they don't look like it, because if barbs wanna do some damage outside of wotb they have to dance around the hex shaman, zombie dogs make this very hard and u risk getting 2-3 stuns in a row if the dogs surround u.

popping wotb while in relentless is another way to do it imo, because of lower cost u save more fury so the hotas have more cc, but it's very risky vs high dps and hard to do right.

probably the most chances are to go for higher dps, pop wotb at the first haunt and pray u get 2 stuns, because after wotb u are dead

[DarkRaven]

with that being said, I have to retire from the league, after the 1.5 hours duel vs psykes from yesterday night i got in trouble with my wife .

it was kinda fun, although not quite what i expected, 90% of duels were me outgearing others, 2-3 duels where balanced gear wise but i still ended winning 5-0, 5-1 which i don't think is fun for the others, the duels vs insane were complete roflstomp, the actual duels that i lost in a somehow balanced way were vs tempest rush monks when i got bored of playing safe after chasing 20 minutes around the map, not quite my idea of fun

there are some here that i didnt get to play but i bet they are very balanced opponents, i will do it in "friendly" games
if anyone feels like testing some games vs barb please hit me up in the game

cya all, i may still keep spamming the forums from work when i get some free time

[Euronymous]

How many crit HotAs did you need to kill him?

[DarkRaven]

I didn't exactly watch the numbers but I would say 3 crit hotas in insanity.

With the dps I had, one crit hota in insanity does max 850-900k, considering his hp plus defensive skills and my weapon range, I think 3 lucky crits should have done it.

But, if I use wotb at the beginning of a haunt, maybe I can still have 80 fury left plus 20 from wc, from 100 fury I have to use at least 2 sprints, so I can maybe get 4 hotas total... if he doesn't run around corners and doesn't spirit walk.

Doing it in relentless has nice advantages but a barb not getting hit gets out of relentless fast with his regen.

Hota soj would allow more hotas with reduced cost and more fury.

I would venture to say that vimer only needed 2 crit hotas in insanity but it also depends on what ehp insane used. In the first match vs me I think he had slightly lower hp but more dps.

[Euronymous]

I don't think you need charge if he isn't using walls. It's a mistake in my opinion to not use walls. If you think chasing a WD around corners is tough, wait til you face the wall

If you really need the stun, ground stomp should be easier and safer to apply. Overall I think threatening shout is best to survive the 1m45s. It's range is higher than the WDs CC skills, low risk of getting caught. And unless the WD wastes his spirit walk to break it he won't be able to get many hits. He also should not be able to kite you during WotB with shout up.

Also Rend is worth a try. Zombie dogs die easily to it. It's range is also higher than the WDs CC so it's rather save to get in a rend here and there. If your crit hotas hit for so much your non-wotb crit rends should bother him quite a bit. 100k HP with no regen on gear is not enough to just eat rends.

WotB might not be necessary if he isn't using EF. Barbs did pretty good in "no hex, no wotb" vs. non EF WDs. Hota+Rend or two instead of one of the fury generating CC skills has worked if you know how to avoid hex.

Lastly, I don't think you are outgeared by that much. Compared to Vimer you have like ~10% less EHP and ~20% less DPS? A significant amount of it due to lower crit chance. Since that's just average DPS your Barb should perform similar in at least some occasions. I wouldn't expect that to be the difference between 5-4 and getting roflstomped 0-10.
Balanced or not at similar gearlevels, it obviously takes more skill and experience to kill a WD as a Barb (/any class) than vice versa.

[DarkRaven]

with the gear he has now on diabloprogress, vimer has about 15% more damage with crits, and a bit more crit chance, ehp wise it's maybe something close to 5-7% more, because i have 7% more vs elites ( ~200-240 vit equivalent) than he has which is not taken into account on diabloprogress, but the ehp is constructed differently, i like at least 700 dex he uses more "raw" ehp., which is better in match-ups where DoT skills are used, like vs wd too.

I will try all u mentioned and it sounds pretty good to me, that is the kind of communication of builds that players have to share

i got used to furious charge because i usually dont use wotb vs wds and charge gives a bit of protection from hex, if u charge, hota and run u can escape the hex shaman even by being close to it, and yes it helps vs wall but not many wds use it.

ground stomp also seems ok, but usually wd has spirit walk available and he will cast it as soon as i pop wotb, even more if i use stomp... and the cd is 12 seconds as oposed to 10 for charge, but at least it's sure stun, that might work pretty well.

the same for threatening shout, if he has spirit walk he will use it when he sees wotb, i have to pay atention and pop it after a finished spirit walk, but indeed this will help also for tanking in the rest of the time.

i will try it if i see insane again, or maybe u can suggest other similarly geared wds, the rest vs whom i played charge and even without wotb seemed to be enough.

[Baharoth]

seems that the most important skills for barb vs good wd are:
1. how to chase and stun the wd when he runs around a rock while u have wotb
2. how to run for 1.45minutes around the map without getting hit too much by the 1000-yards-over-the-wall skills.

Do u rly run around for 1.45 if u couldnt kill him with berserker? If i fail to kill him with my first wotb i tend to go in without it to try and deal some dmg usually dying in the process... just kiting for such a long time...  dont think i wanna do that
I wouldnt even use wotb it i had a choice but with all the cc skills wd has available its pretty much a must have -.-

[DarkRaven]

depends on how much i can tank, vs 99% of wds i can still go at them even without wotb if they can't kill me in a few stuns, i can risk getting hexed, but vs insane for example if i get 2 hexes in a row i have to run and try to regen because a 3rd hex would probably kill me, which is also hard vs skilled wds that know how to control the center.

it's not really "kiting" for a long time is just running like a mad man and trying to hide until i regen some hp i heard mannercookie too referring to running as "kiting". Kiting is when u run a bit then hit the opponent without getting hit by him, taking advantage of faster movement speed and better attack range, what mannercookie does running from dhs or wds when he is about to die is just run-for-your-life-and-hope-you-live-until-next-ignore pain or pot