Diablo 3 Clan League - PvP forum

Duelling & Diablo 3 => Rules & development => Topic started by: Mr.Mag on September 24, 2013, 10:22:51 am

Title: Rules proposal for the 4th season - open discussion
Post by: Mr.Mag on September 24, 2013, 10:22:51 am
go on :)
Title: Re: Rules proposal for the 4th season - open discussion
Post by: N0F3aR on September 24, 2013, 13:15:24 pm
Mr Mag :
There is one very big problem Barb vs Monk : TR monks. This can be 3 hours fight and if i want to not be like this, i have to go more dmg and less ehp and that leads to like easy kills for monks. WHY ? Let me tell what monks are doing : Taking Spirit regen and non stop abusing TR - hoping for crit with bell and then running. If they take crit rend - serenity and then run until serenity is over. THe last match with Mazarini for d3cl he was running without fighting like 2-3 mins per round several times in that round.And cuz i didnt want to lose such time i went more offensive and i lost. I can easily counter TR stalemate build - ill take high ehp + 2 defansive skills and abusing sprint and Monk wont kill me. So - find a solution about that. Variants :
1. Monk and Barb have to engage each other every 10 sec.
2. Some TR restrictions.
3. Since no wotb, we may play and no TR.
Title: Re: Rules proposal for the 4th season - open discussion
Post by: Mr.Mag on September 24, 2013, 13:27:05 pm
if i'm not wrong, it's a barb style, isn't it? :) stalemates are a problem for sure, not only in this particular duel. changing gear or build by both sides probably won't finish with the consent.
Title: Re: Rules proposal for the 4th season - open discussion
Post by: N0F3aR on September 24, 2013, 16:53:39 pm
Did you understand me ? Monk is hitting 1 time then run 2 mins. Is that fight ok? Lets do something
Title: Re: Rules proposal for the 4th season - open discussion
Post by: Baharoth on September 24, 2013, 19:36:28 pm
if i'm not wrong, it's a barb style, isn't it? :) stalemates are a problem for sure, not only in this particular duel. changing gear or build by both sides probably won't finish with the consent.

The Problem is not the fact that Monks run away when their skills are on CD or their life is low. Every class does that. The big difference here, and thats the real Problem, is that the barb has absolutely no way to finish off the wounded Monk. When the Monk is running away and is not completely retarded u will hardly get any hit of on him as barb since he runs faster than u do und u only have short range attacks. Getting a crit rend which is needed to bring him down is even less likely, getting 2 crit rends within 30 seconds (he will just cancel the first with serenity) is Close to impossible. Thats like a wd trying to finish a sprinting barb with firebats -> wont work.
Title: Re: Rules proposal for the 4th season - open discussion
Post by: KNHO on September 24, 2013, 21:00:17 pm
I had yesterday a long discussion with Bleed and Error about Barb vs DH.

--->>> What about Barbs that engage a DH only if "Ignore pain" is rdy?
The most just chicken around pillars till it´s up again, then try to set up a rend and chicken again.
We are forced to chase and rush a Barb like hell, eating rends to be able hitting him.
It´s realy a pain in the ass...
We don´t realy would have a problem with this, but the discipline regeneration of a DH 1/s..... is just a joke.
We need it to negate dmg, to chase the barb, to run from the barb..

Any ideas to solve this problem?
Title: Re: Rules proposal for the 4th season - open discussion
Post by: N0F3aR on September 24, 2013, 22:51:27 pm
Blizzard - reduce dmg of rapid fire and increase dmg of impale. Vs DH like GTXit i can engage only with ignor pain, other side im dead in 2 sec even with 200k life + 31% elite dmg reduce.
Title: Re: Rules proposal for the 4th season - open discussion
Post by: riot on September 25, 2013, 03:54:28 am
Have you guys tried weapon throw against TR monks?
Title: Re: Rules proposal for the 4th season - open discussion
Post by: KNHO on September 25, 2013, 14:40:50 pm
Blizzard - reduce dmg of rapid fire and increase dmg of impale. Vs DH like GTXit i can engage only with ignor pain, other side im dead in 2 sec even with 200k life + 31% elite dmg reduce.

We can wait years till Blizz buffs Impale. Maybe we should work with the curent situation.
I don´t like this Rapid fire gaming, and would be glad being able to play oldschool style again.
What about to weaken the defensive of Barbs a bit more vs Impale? No relentless maybe?
Any other Ideas maybe?
Title: Re: Rules proposal for the 4th season - open discussion
Post by: Saltydog on September 26, 2013, 09:38:05 am
Ok, Season 4 time.

These are balances coming from a Wizard. I only play Wizard and cannot fully comment on how another class would cope with these balances but I will try so please correct me if I am wrong in any part.

Wizard vs Witch Doctor:

- Blood Ritual Passive Banned
- Hex Banned
- Haunt Banned

My argument for the ban of Blood Ritual: It allows them to play extremely defensive and stack no gear based Health Regeneration or Extra Health to Potions. Without Blood Ritual a WD would be essentially as limited as a Wizard in aspects of Life Regeneration. (While Wizard has Galvanizing Ward (620 LPS), and Sparkflint Vigoron (620 LPS) these Passives/Skills are not ideal and not used). This will allow a much more fair fight in my opinion.

My argument for the ban of Hex. With Plague Bats allowed the Witch Doctor will still be able to deal great damage but must be more cautious and use positioning more to their advantage. The Wizard will be able to get in closer to the Witch Doctor without such a fear of an almost assured death. The Witch Doctor still has Horrify as well so this allows them to still have great Crowd Control and defensive capabilities.

My argument for the ban of Haunt. A Witch Doctor can abuse this DOT so well and gain a huge advantage from across the map with no threat to the user. Especially to Wizards because it forces us to use our Mirror Image only to have haunt recast upon us.

I believe this is the most fair option to Wizards and Witch Doctors alike. It gives the Witch Doctor many options (Firebats, Horrify, Spirit Barrage, etc.) while giving the Wizard more chance to wittle the Witch Doctor down. It becomes more of a game of positioning than imbalance in my opinion.

Wizard vs Barbarian:

- Wrath of the Beserker Banned.

My argument for the ban of WOTB. WOTB with 24 Movement Speed is near impossible to evade from due to the invulnerability of Crowd Control Effects. While a Wizard with skill has a chance to live out WOTB it is highly in the Barbarians favor which is why I recommend banning this skill.

Wizard vs Demon Hunter:

- Aid Station Banned.
- Thrill of the Hunt Banned.

My argument for the Aid Station ban. I believe Aid Station is a little too strong and allows the Demon Hunter too much non gear based regeneration. A Demon Hunter already has Preparation - Battlescars and potions which give the Demon Hunter many healing abilities. This ban would allow both classes to play more aggressively and discourage "Camping".

My argument for the ban of Thrill of the Hunt. Rapid Fire itself is very strong but not "OP" in my opinion. When in conjunction with Thrill of the Hunt however the Wizards evasion is useless to the 3 second of Rapid Fire which is going to hit the Wizard. In my opinion this Passive is definitely too strong vs Wizard and also it promotes active gameplay.

Wizard vs Monk:

- Serenity Banned.

My argument for the Serenity Ban. While this ban sounds ridiculous at first I know, let me explain. When a Monk gets onto a Wizard and stuns them, we can safely say we are going to instantly drop to Unstable Anomoly. Unstable Anomoly causes a knockback effect which a monk in Serenity will not be affected by. This allows them to attack right through the Wizard and instant kill us. Without Serenity it would allow the Wizard much more chance to get away from the instant death that the monk deals. Take for example Witch Doctor vs Monk. Even the tankiest of Witch Doctors cannot tank a Monk. But when they get to Spirit Vessel they are automatically allowed to run away from the monk. Where as Wizards are rooted to the ground and is an easy target for the Monk. Without Serenity the Monk still has great teleportation abilities that even if Unstable Anomoly knocked them back, they would be right back on the Wizard to finish the kill. This ban is much easier than the ban of numerous stun skills in my opinion.
Title: Re: Rules proposal for the 4th season - open discussion
Post by: N0F3aR on September 28, 2013, 14:12:27 pm
1 question - when season is about to finish and what is the prize pool. And again - go promote the season and change some rules ( especially wd vs barb ) to no rules or "Barb is not allowed to use WotB and rune Marathon of sprint, WD cant use hex and fear"
And some time restriction for barb vs tr monk - like 10 sec engage time.
Title: Re: Rules proposal for the 4th season - open discussion
Post by: N0F3aR on September 30, 2013, 12:42:24 pm
Seriosly, some answers?
Title: Re: Rules proposal for the 4th season - open discussion
Post by: Forti on September 30, 2013, 14:25:22 pm
No one cares about you and you stupid politic... As i see
Title: Re: Rules proposal for the 4th season - open discussion
Post by: KNHO on September 30, 2013, 14:33:50 pm
No one cares about you and you stupid politic... As i see

The only one person, who´s talking non-constructive bullshit here on forums, are you Forti.
Since you don´t play in the league, no one cares about you  ??? ?
Nofear is asking about a buff for WD vs Barb, and talks about balancing Monk vs Barb. Since this is a rule propposal thread, it´s very ok what he says. Promotion is also a very good question, if we don´t want to stay at the down of 10 active players.....
If you don´t have to say something that helps the community, keep closed please.

Sorry Vasil, i can´t help here with a answer, since i play only DH in PvP..
Maybe we should talk ingame with Lelik, Mazarini, Sin about this, and hear what they got to say.
Also if we get more active players, the league should provide playoffs of the best 16! <--- Very important in my eyes!
Title: Re: Rules proposal for the 4th season - open discussion
Post by: Forti on September 30, 2013, 20:05:05 pm
D3 pvp community was never exist. Not because of players... So.. No point to fight.
Title: Re: Rules proposal for the 4th season - open discussion
Post by: KNHO on September 30, 2013, 22:18:58 pm
- The Demon Hunter is not allowed to play the “bunker – style”. This style is defined by laying “Turrets” and/or “Spike Traps” and not coming out from the range of these traps.

Maybe set up a better defination of this rule? Right now the rule is very confusing.
>>>The healing turet only makes sense if you sit in it, to heal up.<<< So how do we have to understand the existing rule?
= Healing turret is not allowed to use for Dh´s?
If yes, rewrite the rule please right now, so that every stupid BT Tank DH can understand it  ;) ::)
Title: Re: Rules proposal for the 4th season - open discussion
Post by: Mr.Mag on October 02, 2013, 14:20:39 pm
KNHO i'm not sure if changing the rules now (when season is going) is a good idea. give me some time to think about it. I'd like to give you (you and maybe nofear) ability to change the rules without me but i'm not sure if you won't favor classes you play on. tell me i'm wrong ;) as you know, i'm not competent enough to take such decision. we had > 10 d3cl members on the beginning, i wanted to be only a programmer, nothing else. now i have to be a one man army ;)

prizepool is about 700 mln. not much. i hope noone plays for this crappy gold but for immortal fame!
Title: Re: Rules proposal for the 4th season - open discussion
Post by: KNHO on October 02, 2013, 16:05:12 pm
We never would favour our classes. The whole thing about this, is to get a balance for all, and more fun.
All things that we say, are based on playing vs the best of each classes.
We got support from VC, and another very good players to create rules. So this wouldn´t be a problem at all.

The biggest Problem right now is the very low player number...
5-6!! Active players @ the moment! There must be any kind of promotion! And maybe a intresting prizepool..
I don´t realy know how to get people to play the league active. New, non experienced players come, get banged by the pros very hard, and leave instant. Maybe you should try to make mirror competition also every season. I think this would bring more and new players to d3cl.

Changing the rules during the season if you find a mistake, is ok in my opinion!
Title: Re: Rules proposal for the 4th season - open discussion
Post by: Mr.Mag on October 02, 2013, 16:33:50 pm
even low lvl dueling is not so popular. people dont want to 'pvp' ;/ hope blizz will do something with it asap. i'll make an advertisement on diablofans but i don't expect thousands of players ;)

that rule with turret is not new. why this is a problem now?
Title: Re: Rules proposal for the 4th season - open discussion
Post by: N0F3aR on October 02, 2013, 18:14:03 pm
Mr Mag, you are not correct, when i host VC tournament - if i make good promotion - i have 16 players in 1 day signed and all of them are top players. You need to atract players, but with the current rules and no clear information about prize ... hm... good players may not join.
Title: Re: Rules proposal for the 4th season - open discussion
Post by: Baharoth on October 02, 2013, 20:35:46 pm
Mr Mag, you are not correct, when i host VC tournament - if i make good promotion - i have 16 players in 1 day signed and all of them are top players. You need to atract players, but with the current rules and no clear information about prize ... hm... good players may not join.

I dare say thats part of the Problem. As it is right now the "PvP Community" consists of how many? 30? Top Players and thats it. Due to the massiv gear Differences there is just no point for new Players to start pvp they just get raped 24/7. Pros only might work for tournaments, but its not enough to keep a league going.

The next problem are imo the rules. And i am not even talking about the balance between the classes. Its how the Duells work. Playing against Tank dhs in their Bunker is no fun at all and that "rule" isnt worth the paper its written on because the only way to make it count is to have a judge watch the Duell. Against TR Monks its an annoying "catch me if u can" Game that u just cant win as a barb cuz ur to slow. BVB sucks anyway at least in my opinion which leaves 2 Matchups that are at least a little fun to play. Well 1 matchup since there are hardly any wiz Players around. Stalemates are realy annoying and if both sides play to win they happen quite frequently. In my case 1 match against a Monk that ended in a stalemate after 15 minutes of fighting ruined my motivation for pvp completly and as long as the rules dont change to avoid that i dont feel like participating again.

And the LLD rules...well lets just say i am not suprised that half of the Players Play WD including the 2 at the top....

To cut it short PvP as it is right now is just not fun at all.
Title: Re: Rules proposal for the 4th season - open discussion
Post by: KNHO on October 02, 2013, 20:48:05 pm
that rule with turret is not new. why this is a problem now?

I think not everybody understands it as it is right now. Just make it more understandable like i said.
- The Demonhunter is not allowed to use "Aid station" and "Guardian turret".
Because for using those 2...you need to camp inside them. Otherwise they don´t make sense. <--- Camping = Rule breaking. I would say, lets rework the rules a little bit, because Nofear found some mistakes in WD vs Barb too.
Then we also can look on what salty said about Wizz vs Rest..
A update of the rules is ok, because we are in good development right now.
Someday they will be great to play for the most players, ofc only if they now what they do.
It doesn´t make sense to run a season till the end with mistaked rules.