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Messages - Superstate

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1
General discussion / Re: Decimation
« on: June 17, 2012, 08:34:04 am  »

EDIT:  I'm using Excel 2007, could this be the issue?  And if not, I can't change ANYTHING on the weapon slot (affix,name,dmg, etc) without it breaking the sheet.

That is very likely the issue! While 2007 can open .xlsm documents, it very likely can't run Decimation properly. Other people have reported in the past issues with 2007, and I've never had the errors you describe yourself (using 2010), so I guess using 2007 is out of the picture I'm afraid.

2
General discussion / Re: Decimation
« on: June 16, 2012, 12:59:28 pm  »
Is anyone else having the issue when they change/update weapon values the DPS breaks with '#NAME'.

Not sure if it's been posted/resolved yet, I've scoured the calc page looking for a way to fix it, with no avail.  It even happens on the stock download when you switch the weapons the main page breaks and DPS is unable to be calculated.

When I get #NAME errors it's because I've renamed an item while having it equipped. Resolving is either an Undo or if you've already saved it, a re-download of the spreadsheet. Let me know if this is what broke your sheet!

Is there a macro that needs to run the 120s duration of a fight to calculate the DPS that I'm not seeing a button for?  I used to run macro's for my rogue in wow and I had to run the test in order to see dps updates....what am I missing with this spreadsheet?

No, any changes made to stats or other mods such as passive talents and so forth automatically updates ~30k calculations. And remember that it doesn't need to be a 120 sec duration, or even time duration at all, you do have options for choosing target health instead.   :)

The macros in this spreadsheet are mainly to quicken up a boring task of manually adding a bunch of values for comparisons. For example, you have an SEP macro which essentially tries adding the chosen number of stats (there's a note explaining this in the spreadsheet) for one stat at a time, save the result, and re-run the calculations with another added stat. There's also a defensive equivalent to determine the value of defensive stats, although it is currently hidden!
 


Thanks for the resource Super, once I get this kink worked out it's going to be a godsend.

-Serated

Thank you! Hope you get it working and let me know if you still have #NAME issues even if you don't rename equipment you currently have equipped.


Edit: I should add that it's perfectly fine to change the affix values of an item while having it equipped, the spreadsheet doesn't like it when you try to rename it though.

3
General discussion / Re: Decimation
« on: June 09, 2012, 18:08:19 pm  »
Version 5.4.2!

  • Fixed error with average block-slip when maximum block is capped and minimum block isn't (partial overblocking).


Now the spreadsheet treats partial overblocking as a ratio, which should improve the value of DR as you start to overblock at high block rolls (partial overblocking). In scenarios where your max block reduces the incoming swing to zero but your minimum block doesn't, the formula used is as follows:

0,5 * min Slip^2 / d Block

d Block - delta between max and min block of the shield
min Slip - the maximum incoming damage in minimum block cases

4
General discussion / Re: Decimation
« on: June 09, 2012, 15:13:52 pm  »
Version 5.4!

  • Blocking information now fully provided!
  • Superstition implemented in the resistance tables as well for easy overlooking in the Res-Box.
  • Fixed a potential double-dipping of relative EHP.
  • Most huge numbers have been reduced to display in thousands rather than in actual size.
  • Total Relative Effective Life has been updated to include the outcome of the blocking, which means that it is dependant on the model swing. The model swing is currently set to 170k but you can edit it all you like.

What the last bullet point means is that if you change the model swing, the value of block will fluctuate. When the minimum block value is higher or equal to the incoming swing, block chance is another DR at a 1:1 ratio (40% block = 40% dr), beforehand it is at another ratio depending on what I call the average block-slip, or the damage that on average doesn't get blocked.


Another thing to remember is that if you're looking at items with increased block chance and comparing it to another item without block, the percentage difference that the relative effective life will show you is essentially depending on the model swing, if you increase the model swing the value of the block item will start to diminish. It is up to you to remember this!

5
General discussion / Re: Decimation
« on: May 30, 2012, 07:31:43 am  »
Version 5.3!

  • Reduced dmg % included.
  • Fixed a missing hook for WMSw in the regular character sheet Damage box (had no impact on the actual combat table calculation).

6
General discussion / Re: Decimation
« on: May 11, 2012, 15:17:19 pm  »
@GuN

The higher dexterity numbers were taken from the emulator.


And no class will of course ever reach 100% dodge, there is very likely a hard cap in case dodge values gets high.



7
General discussion / Re: Decimation
« on: May 11, 2012, 02:03:15 am  »
is this calculator working properly and is up to date? i'd like to put in on news

Yep!

since ive got no installed excel, is there any possibility someone could give me the dodge formula ?
especially the diminishing return part of dexterity. is this still datamined with these results:

Sure! Copy pasta from a friend of mine who looked into it.

Dex Range      Dodge% / Dex

   0 -  100         0.1
 100 -  500         0.025
 500 - 1000         0.02
1000 - 8000         0.01

8000 Dexterity = 100% chance to dodge


And yes, currently the game appears to allow 100% dodge via dexterity, even if it's impossible to reach the levels required.

8
General discussion / Re: Decimation
« on: May 01, 2012, 13:33:31 pm  »
Version 5.2!

  • Introducing Release day Mechanics! There's a quick nav button in the Equipped sheet that takes you to the previously hardcoded assumptions about some of the behaviours of the higher level runestones.
    More information below.
  • Dread Bomb modeled!
  • Implemented the specific skill affixes.
  • A small Thorns calculator added. It uses the same variables used for the combat table (all editable in the Advanced tab of course).

About the Release day Mechanics!

With these added, the spreadsheet effectively doesn't need to be in a beta state any longer, since the true D3 mechanics is some combination of the following mechanics. These are the mechanics you can change with simple lists:

  • Impunity - multiplicative/additive
  • WotB IAS - multiplicative/additive
  • Insanity DIM - multiplicative/additive
  • Battle Rage DIM - multiplicative/additive
  • WW Dmg - Dmg / Cycle or Dmg / Hit
  • WM Fury Gain - Fury / Hit or Fury / Attack
  • Maniac - All Damage or Frenzy only
  • Maniac DIM - multiplicative/additive
  • Punish DIM - multiplicative/additive

You can still of course change all the percentage-based events which we don't have a number on yet as well.

There is mainly one thing I'm still curious about when it comes to Barbarian damage-dealing, and that is how the WW attack speed works. At the moment the spreadsheet uses a static 3 APS regardless of weapon type, which obviously hugely favors 2handers. Regardless, the APS used can be edited in the Actives tab!



Thanks very much for your efforts. I definitly will use this awesome tool of yours at release.

Thank you.  :)

9
General discussion / Re: Decimation
« on: April 27, 2012, 18:09:25 pm  »
Version 5.1!

  • ​Cleave's native fury generation now separated from Reaping Swing / WMMW, fury generation for Cleave is now correct on multiple targets. Thanks to Draner for notifying me.
  • Multiple primary generators no longer cast simultaneously.
  • Using a gamestyle to delay casting Overpower / Revenge until after another attack has been abandoned. This means that Overpower / Revenge now incurs a regular ability cooldown.
  • Momentum (Overpower) now functions correctly.

10
General discussion / Re: Decimation
« on: April 14, 2012, 02:13:47 am  »
Version 5.0!

  • Introducing view modes! I was worried about unnecessary information for the new user, and as such the Minimalist view mode is now default. There is a dropdown list above the DPS box that instantly changes the layout if you want to use the Advanced mode. Check picture below.
  • Introducing Life mode! The default mode is Time (down in the alabaster box in the Equipped tab), but changing it to Life brings a new box forward to set the target health in k Life. Above the DPS another box has appeared with the finished time it took to reach the target health. Check picture below.
  • The Items tab now highlights the rows of items you currently have equipped so you easily can see what item to edit. Check picture below.
  • Fixed a serious bug causing the combat table to break down completely. The probability of getting hit could get negative in situations where a dodge was followed immediately after a Revenge proc causing a NaN error, which in itself is a SPOF.

Time Box




Highlighted rows for equipped items






Minimalist viewmode


11
General discussion / Re: Decimation
« on: April 12, 2012, 23:11:57 pm  »
Version 4.6!

  • Item values added on the Equipped page! It uses an internal SEP and AEP (Armor) check using the lowest unit of each stat to roll all offensive and defensive stats of an item into offensive and defensive sums. Check picture below.
  • Dodge now diminishes correctly with Dexterity (until release at least..)
  • Tough as Nails and War Cry are presumed to stack additively rather than multiplicatively, ie the armor multiplier becomes 1+0,25+0,2 rather than 1,25*1,2. This slightly lowers the overall value of using both at the same time.


12
General discussion / Re: Decimation
« on: April 12, 2012, 10:15:40 am  »
Thank you for sharing your work. Its nice to see such a huge in depth TC right now.
There is one thing, i havent seen youve mentioned so far. What about DoT´s like rend. Do they scale with IAS like they do with haste in WoW ? Have you noticed any math so far regarding DoT´s ?

There aren't that many dots around really, as a consequence not a lot of math has been done on the particular subject of IAS effects combined with dots (at least not for Barbarians, where Rend is our only dot). The channeled spells might appear equal to dots, however they work fundamentally very different, where we know channeled spells have cycles which are directly effected by weapon speed, and thus IAS effects.

The easiest way to test this isn't to test Rend, it would probably be to test Haunt since it has a much longer duration, a time reduction via increased IAS would be much more noticable if IAS effects works. I'm pretty certain that if somebody has worked out the kinks of dot mechanics, it is very likely an aspiring witch doctor.

So no, I haven't actually tested it and it had slipped my mind. Do I believe IAS quickens the dot pace? No, but rather be certain about it. I'll look into this first thing tomorrow.

13
General discussion / Re: Decimation
« on: April 11, 2012, 17:33:43 pm  »
Oh, that's why your name was so familiar, mi first wow char was on frostmane :)

Superstate was only an alt at the time but yes..  :)

14
General discussion / Re: Decimation
« on: April 11, 2012, 13:08:04 pm  »
Alright, hi there fellas!  Was thinking that I should start with introducing myself and answer a few questions. If you have more, please write!

There is already a Decimation topic up, why repost?

Well I need to be able to update the op for new versions for a start.  :P


Why post it here?

I've had Decimation up on general news sites since late September last year (the development has been longer than that), and while I believe users appreciate the efforts, I'm not THAT interested in the general mass that is out there. saesa has been pushing me to this site, and while I do understand that it isn't a 100% international site, I don't mind exposing it to a different crowd who possibly can make use of it as well.

Who the fuck is Superstate?

Former raid leader and guild master of the best raiding Swedish WoW-guild for several years (Memento Mori). First time I played D2 was in 2000, and D2 was the first game I played hardcore, in 2003 and forward. IRL I'm a regular guy, I don't work with mathematics or programming, I just enjoy doing it as pastime; I find logical builds and systems extremely interesting.


How accurate is this spreadsheet? What are some of the unknown variables?

It depends on what area of the spreadsheet you're looking at. The defensive portion with %DR, effective life, resistance DR and so forth is extremely accurate (100% in fact). There is one exception in the version that I posted now, and that's dodge, but that's fixed to the next version. The reason why is because dodge uses a very strange formula to determine dodge yield (0,1% dodge / dex up to 100 dex, 0,025% dodge / dex from 100-500, 0,02 from 500-1000, 0,01 from 1000-8000  [where you reach 100% dodge]). In this formula, 100% dodge is a possibility.

Most of the defensive calculations are derived from formulae that I haven't myself theorycrafted (I've spent my time on the offensive portion). Here is a source for the DR% Armor for example:

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/3967597687?page=1


I've tested this ingame and it matches 100%. So does the resistance formula, which is found elsewhere.


As for the offensive mechanics, I've found several interesting things. A few of them are very "old" now, but keep in mind it was in September when the beta started that I was really looking at this stuff, now it has all been determined and proven and instead I sometimes confirm they haven't changed any of the mechanics. Some mechanics I've found several months ago are:

- DW bonus
- Spender IAS bonus (around 10%)
- Additive IAS
- Additive DIM's
- Non prim gens uses an APS of around 1,2
- Determining elemental effects

and more..


With all that said.. there are areas where the accuracies falls off, but that's not due to calculation errors. This is due to presumptions we have to make about the game. For example, we're assuming for several reasons that IAS effects from abilities we can't reach such as Wrath of the Berserker, and DIM's such as WotB's Insanity runestone, are all additive.

In the case of IAS effects this is something I've found in game. I've tested Frenzy shrines, DW bonus, WM spear/polearm, gear bonuses and so on, and they are all additive. Most importantly, I've also tested Frenzy, and decided that it too appears to be additive. This is why it appears very likely that WotB is another additive IAS effect, and so it is modeled.

For DIM's there quite recently was a sum added to the character details depicting damage from skills. We do know that Battle Rage is a multiplicative damage boost, and it goes in this number. On another occassion I noticed that WM sword also does, which very much does make sense. Otherwise it would be increasingly powerful to stack all multiplying effects, and well.. it isn't. It's a linear return, as is most aspects of the D3 mechanics.


This is a beta, doesn't mechanics/abilities change a lot?

All passive / active skills are dynamically linked, all their tooltips as well, and names. In the Actives/Passives tab any number can be tweaked and the spreadsheet is immediately updated. Reworking percentages to match a patch for example literally takes 1 minute, and you can easily do it yourself (this is the main reason for dynamically linking everything).


As for basic game mechanics, surprisingly few has changed since September. The most notable changes have been the nerfs of runestones / passives rather than game mechanic changes. In fact, I can't really think of any mechanic that has changed.. The stat change wasn't that much of a change in the spreadsheet, just had to rehook Attack into Strength really.




So all in all.. I've spent hundreds of hours of my limited free time to do this. Hope you enjoy it and if you have any questions, go ahead and ask them..  :)


15
General discussion / Odp: Re: Decimation
« on: April 11, 2012, 13:07:41 pm  »
Version 4.5!

  • Resistances reworked! For some reason I hadn't done this before, but now they are in and working great. Picture below!
  • Base hp should be correct up to L13 at least, presumably longer, thanks to HardRock!
  • Impunity added, there's a flip for whether or not it's multiplicative or additive. Default is additive, even if that seems off from the tooltip. You can find the flip at cell CQ11 in the Calc tab.
  • Percentages matching patch 16!

Known issue: Dexterity has no diminishing returns on Dodge in the sheet at the moment.


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