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Community information and announcements / Re: US & EU D3CL Season #2
« on: May 14, 2013, 22:24:35 pm »
Must have been a different MoKKaL on PTR then that told me pets are fine and easily killed 
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17
Community information and announcements / Re: US & EU D3CL Season #2
« on: May 13, 2013, 20:24:55 pm »
It's already addressed isn't it?
- In duels versus the “Wizard” the skill “Companion” is not allowed.
- In duels versus the “Wizard” the skill “Preparation” with rune “Battle Scars” is not allowed.
- In duels versus the “Wizard” the skill “Sentry” with rune “Aid Station” is not allowed.
- In duels versus the “Wizard” the passive skill “Brooding” is not allowed.
Bit surprised that you lost 5-0 vs. that WD. What kind of setup did he use?
- In duels versus the “Wizard” the skill “Companion” is not allowed.
- In duels versus the “Wizard” the skill “Preparation” with rune “Battle Scars” is not allowed.
- In duels versus the “Wizard” the skill “Sentry” with rune “Aid Station” is not allowed.
- In duels versus the “Wizard” the passive skill “Brooding” is not allowed.
Bit surprised that you lost 5-0 vs. that WD. What kind of setup did he use?
18
Community information and announcements / Re: US & EU D3CL Season #2
« on: May 13, 2013, 15:39:56 pm »Btw, 1 question :
Is the bunker style of DH allowed? I hear some dh already use it on this season. So?
It´s pretty much how you definate "Bunker Style".
1. Putting on ground 3 Healing-Turrets in a spot, and sit inside them with brooding+Full BT set+130 k hp, is "Bunker Style".
2. Moving around on the map with setting up Healing-Turrets in some diffrent spots, and sit inside them with brooding+Full BT set+130 k hp, is what? How long can a player sit in a place surrounded by turrets on one spot before we can call it "Bunker"?
I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned this yet. That playstyle was already effective in 1.07 and now with 4%life/s, 60%life/45s, ~2k life/s and ~25%life/30s via pots combined with good mitigation and high dodge looks pretty OP on paper. Firebats will work but other than that I don't see many chars being able to kill such a DH.
If it proves to be OP then some skills should be banned (e.g. 2% turrets or 2% brooding but not both and turrets or traps but not both), that way you don't have to define "bunker style" anymore.
KNHO did you watch the vid I posted in this thread earlier? Reminds me a bit of D2 pvp.
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Community information and announcements / Re: US & EU D3CL Season #2
« on: May 12, 2013, 19:45:39 pm »
The thing is, most of the duels in D3 will be one-sided. Duels that go back and forth with unpredictable outcome are few and far between. No skill restrictions will ever change that.
Let's take your example
with current rules
easy win vs nofear
draw vs darkraven
hypothetically: loss vs top barbs (no offense to these 2 barbs)
If it's balanced around your duels vs nofear (e.g. no mocking demise on mirror mimics) it will just be a simple shift of powers to
draw vs nofear
loss vs darkraven
no chance vs top/tanky barbs
Is this better/more balanced? Who should judge that?
Let's take your example
with current rules
easy win vs nofear
draw vs darkraven
hypothetically: loss vs top barbs (no offense to these 2 barbs)
If it's balanced around your duels vs nofear (e.g. no mocking demise on mirror mimics) it will just be a simple shift of powers to
draw vs nofear
loss vs darkraven
no chance vs top/tanky barbs
Is this better/more balanced? Who should judge that?
20
Community information and announcements / Re: US & EU D3CL Season #2
« on: May 12, 2013, 12:47:34 pm »as of my tests all "regular" pvp barbs maybe not vimer and devil will be melted by the new rapid fire rocket build + ballistic build because the bugged rockets do something like 500% weapon dps and no 145% + 50%.
Can someone confirm this? If it's bugged the rune should be banned temporarily until they fix it.
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Community information and announcements / Re: US & EU D3CL Season #2
« on: May 11, 2013, 20:18:19 pm »
What would you suggest to prevent stalemates?
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Community information and announcements / Re: US & EU D3CL Season #2
« on: May 11, 2013, 17:48:13 pm »
Then don't use it if you can live without the fury regen. Barbs were fine in the test season vs. DH and I don't see how the change from "no warcry" to "warcry (no rune)" will have a negative impact on you. Patch didn't change anything unless DHs come up with a way to utilize the buffed rapid fire. Until then I see no reason to change the rules.
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Community information and announcements / Re: US & EU D3CL Season #2
« on: May 11, 2013, 15:17:55 pm »
These "poker style" or "mind game" rules are intriguing but there are so many cheese builds out there that you will auto-lose against with the wrong spec that it will be really annoying to play like that all the time. It also encourages players to go with more conservative builds to minimze the risk of losing which will lead to more stalemates.
For the few situations where you can't come to an agreement with your opponent you should call a judge who will then enforce these "poker style" rules.
The intention of Warcry "no rune" is to lower the barbs EHP a bit while keeping everything else the same - not as a trade-off between EHP and fury.
There is definitately a need for stalemate rules, still looking for a good solution for this. Most suggestions I have seen go like this: "after a certain amount of time, players go back to the chapel and choose a more offensive build". The problem is, how do you define "more offensive" to make it fair for both players?
For the few situations where you can't come to an agreement with your opponent you should call a judge who will then enforce these "poker style" rules.
The intention of Warcry "no rune" is to lower the barbs EHP a bit while keeping everything else the same - not as a trade-off between EHP and fury.
There is definitately a need for stalemate rules, still looking for a good solution for this. Most suggestions I have seen go like this: "after a certain amount of time, players go back to the chapel and choose a more offensive build". The problem is, how do you define "more offensive" to make it fair for both players?
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Community information and announcements / Re: US & EU D3CL Season #2
« on: May 11, 2013, 13:21:36 pm »
You didn't sound aggressive to me, I just find it unwarranted to call for rules to be double checked or to start making rankings without thorougly testing them.
D3 dueling is heavily RNG thanks to crits, even more for you since your mitigation mostly is RNG. If you can't reach the threshold to kill your opponent you will lose or force a stalemate. Banning a few skills here and there to "balance" the game won't change that.
I don't see a way out of this except for forcing people to re-gear with non-crit gear and limiting/banning the ways to regen HP. I can see it being more fun than the current dueling but it's probably not gonna happen because it would require a large group of players willing to test and play like that.
Here is a vid of lvl9 DH vs. Barb that shows similar gameplay (low crit, regen limit):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAFDRNMZaao&feature=youtu.be
D3 dueling is heavily RNG thanks to crits, even more for you since your mitigation mostly is RNG. If you can't reach the threshold to kill your opponent you will lose or force a stalemate. Banning a few skills here and there to "balance" the game won't change that.
I don't see a way out of this except for forcing people to re-gear with non-crit gear and limiting/banning the ways to regen HP. I can see it being more fun than the current dueling but it's probably not gonna happen because it would require a large group of players willing to test and play like that.
Here is a vid of lvl9 DH vs. Barb that shows similar gameplay (low crit, regen limit):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAFDRNMZaao&feature=youtu.be
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Community information and announcements / Re: US & EU D3CL Season #2
« on: May 11, 2013, 00:54:15 am »
DH complaining Barbs still win or stalemate, Barb complaining they are too weak now vs. DH. Good stuff.
Perfect example of how you can't be everybody's darling.
Iria, I respect your opinion and love your enthusiasm for D3 pvp. What is it with your obsession for rankings though? Every time I read your posts I feel like I'm reading the current NBA power rankings on ESPN.
It looks like WDs started the season as the dark horse for you and have been climbing steadily since then. The match-up went from favorable to DHs over slightly favorable to DHs to about even. Couple weeks ago they even overtook DHs in your 1.07 rankings and after the blockbuster trade for Firebats in 1.08 they are obviously on a whole nother level similar to the Heat
Since either the future hall of famer Haunt or the most improved player of the year candidate Firebats are out for at least the beginning of the 1.08 season, some experts think that WDs will struggle early on and it might be the time for DHs to shine again...
I also think you list Wiz too high in your rankings. I don't see them as a playoff team yet.
Perfect example of how you can't be everybody's darling.
Iria, I respect your opinion and love your enthusiasm for D3 pvp. What is it with your obsession for rankings though? Every time I read your posts I feel like I'm reading the current NBA power rankings on ESPN.
It looks like WDs started the season as the dark horse for you and have been climbing steadily since then. The match-up went from favorable to DHs over slightly favorable to DHs to about even. Couple weeks ago they even overtook DHs in your 1.07 rankings and after the blockbuster trade for Firebats in 1.08 they are obviously on a whole nother level similar to the Heat
Since either the future hall of famer Haunt or the most improved player of the year candidate Firebats are out for at least the beginning of the 1.08 season, some experts think that WDs will struggle early on and it might be the time for DHs to shine again...
I also think you list Wiz too high in your rankings. I don't see them as a playoff team yet.
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Rules & development / Re: Ruleversion 1.2.6 [Open Discussion]
« on: May 09, 2013, 23:34:25 pm »
@Iria
Like I said, it's not really my field. But from what I have experienced and read DH vs. Wiz is extremely one-sided. They have no dots, no hard-hitting spell that could randomly one-hit a decent DH like Wave of Light or Spirit Barrage could and almost no help from defensive skills.
I don't think just banning some regen skills is gonna balance this. Right now you can just jump on them and kill in a few crits.
@Dark
The difference is like day and night. Use low dps pve gear on your barb vs. WD if you want to see how Wiz feel. Dead in a second without being able to even scratch the WD
I agree it's a bit lame to play vs. a heavy cc build with no cc breaker. You can just sit there and watch and hope that you get out before you die.
WotB is just way too overpowered, I don't see how a Barb could ever lose with it. All you have to do is force Wiz into using their teleport and then go berserker. And even if the Wiz somehow manages to never use teleport, ~15s to catch a Wiz after his teleport in this tiny arena is more than enough.
I don't think it's proven yet that the match-up is favorable for Wiz at the highest level and until then I think it's better to have some ranked duels and see how it goes. I find it a bit harsh to nerf the class that was beaten up for months in advance, let's give them there moment to shine
Btw. in case you haven't noticed, rule dev activity is really low right now. Me personally, I won't even be playing in 1.08 and probably won't play again until Blizz starts giving a shit about PvP. The other devs have a similar mindset or so it seems at least since I haven't seen any activity from most of them in weeks if not months.
There will probably be the need to hire some new rule devs soon. Keep in mind no matter what we did or the remaining/new devs will do, our possibilites are extremely limited and thus rules will always favor a certain class or build.
Let's just get d3cl running again and have some fun
Like I said, it's not really my field. But from what I have experienced and read DH vs. Wiz is extremely one-sided. They have no dots, no hard-hitting spell that could randomly one-hit a decent DH like Wave of Light or Spirit Barrage could and almost no help from defensive skills.
I don't think just banning some regen skills is gonna balance this. Right now you can just jump on them and kill in a few crits.
@Dark
The difference is like day and night. Use low dps pve gear on your barb vs. WD if you want to see how Wiz feel. Dead in a second without being able to even scratch the WD
I agree it's a bit lame to play vs. a heavy cc build with no cc breaker. You can just sit there and watch and hope that you get out before you die.
WotB is just way too overpowered, I don't see how a Barb could ever lose with it. All you have to do is force Wiz into using their teleport and then go berserker. And even if the Wiz somehow manages to never use teleport, ~15s to catch a Wiz after his teleport in this tiny arena is more than enough.
I don't think it's proven yet that the match-up is favorable for Wiz at the highest level and until then I think it's better to have some ranked duels and see how it goes. I find it a bit harsh to nerf the class that was beaten up for months in advance, let's give them there moment to shine
Btw. in case you haven't noticed, rule dev activity is really low right now. Me personally, I won't even be playing in 1.08 and probably won't play again until Blizz starts giving a shit about PvP. The other devs have a similar mindset or so it seems at least since I haven't seen any activity from most of them in weeks if not months.
There will probably be the need to hire some new rule devs soon. Keep in mind no matter what we did or the remaining/new devs will do, our possibilites are extremely limited and thus rules will always favor a certain class or build.
Let's just get d3cl running again and have some fun
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Rules & development / Re: Ruleversion 1.2.6 [Open Discussion]
« on: May 09, 2013, 20:50:35 pm »and what about wd vs wiz then... what do u propose? coz i feel pretty hopeless in that match up
That's my current proposal. I also think that DH needs to be toned down a bit offensively (e.g. no offensive passives like sharpshooter) vs. Wiz but that's not my field. It's really easy for DHs to get in a huge guaranteed crit of fan/impale while Wiz can only hope for a random crit of the measly 130% storm armor.
- In duels versus the “Wizard” can use only one of the skills “Corpse Spiders” with rune “Leaping Spiders”, “Firebats”, “Haunt” and “Spirit Barrage”.
- In duels versus the “Wizard” is not allowed to use the skill “Horrify”.
- In duels versus the “Wizard” is not allowed to use the passive skill “Blood Ritual”.
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Rules & development / Re: Ruleversion 1.2.6 [Open Discussion]
« on: May 08, 2013, 12:59:12 pm »I think that the balance from season 1 had something to do with gear swapping.
if barbs run for 2 minutes with tank gear than swap to full dps skorn in wotb plus ip maybe they can kill in a couple of shots, cause more is pretty hard to get and the fury cost of wotb+sprint+hotas is too big.
also I think the gear changed a lot from then.
in your recent games vs top barbs, with wotb and no gear swap, what was roughly their win ratio? if it was at least 30% than it should be ok
30%+ should be possible, it's definitely not as hopeless as the non-wotb matches. It's not even set in stone that WDs have the advantage against a properly geared and skilled wotb barb.
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Rules & development / Re: Natalya legacy set
« on: May 08, 2013, 11:48:45 am »
Stop being so selfish and just post it already. You are holding back information that supposedly helps classes for months now because of some tourney with a potential prize of what, $50? Bullshit.
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Rules & development / Re: Ruleversion 1.2.6 [Open Discussion]
« on: May 08, 2013, 11:43:04 am »
Yes, just no Firebats vs. Barbs, no other rules in that match-up.
Only time Barbs managed to do anything vs. me is with WotB. I don't think there is a way around it unless you want to ban Echoing Fury.
The "no hex, no wotb" rule was invented because a lot of players (mostly barbs) were complaining that playing with wotb is annoying. It looked good on paper but didn't work out too well apparently.
It was 55-45 for WDs in the 302 duels in the first d3cl season with "no rules" btw.. That is as balanced as you will get in the current game. You have to take it for what it is right now until Blizzard starts to care about PvP.
@Iria
Haven't tried it, it could work too. Find yourself some WDs and try it out
Only time Barbs managed to do anything vs. me is with WotB. I don't think there is a way around it unless you want to ban Echoing Fury.
The "no hex, no wotb" rule was invented because a lot of players (mostly barbs) were complaining that playing with wotb is annoying. It looked good on paper but didn't work out too well apparently.
It was 55-45 for WDs in the 302 duels in the first d3cl season with "no rules" btw.. That is as balanced as you will get in the current game. You have to take it for what it is right now until Blizzard starts to care about PvP.
@Iria
Haven't tried it, it could work too. Find yourself some WDs and try it out