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16

Rules & development / Re: Ruleversion 1.2.6 [Open Discussion]

« on: April 11, 2013, 07:33:20 am  »

Its obvious that this is not nesecary move since no barb can beat Mystical even with war cry. I think the problem is not the barb and his EHP but you and your game play.

When I suggested that haunt ban vs monk was not needed because very good monk viri has found a very effective counter against wd without handicap, every one seemed to suggest that my point was invalid because there was only one good player who was doing it much better than every one else... Is this situation any different?

17

Rules & development / Re: Ruleversion 1.2.6 [Open Discussion]

« on: April 10, 2013, 14:33:13 pm  »

its been a while since I played against barb with my 20% fear ef but I did find juggernaut very effective once barb gets to about 200k+ hp. basicaly was good enough that it forced me to switch to a dif weapon to get a kill.

if u really cant figure it out you could always ban ef. its just there are lots of wd that play vs barb without ef so you cant just introduce a general rule that will make ef mandatory for wd to compensate the handicap.

18

Rules & development / Re: Ruleversion 1.2.6 [Open Discussion]

« on: April 10, 2013, 05:58:34 am  »

  - Barb vs WD - Same as against Wizards. Against decent WD is annoying - they use echo fury + horrify and its going insane. That double fear effect makes almost impossible to hurt him seriosly. Maybe allowing WotB here is good choice. Cuz i dont have any other skill that counter horrify and echo fury. And cc reduciton is not working.

actually u have a very easy counter; juggernaut

19

Rules & development / Re: Ruleversion 1.2.6 [Open Discussion]

« on: March 31, 2013, 04:15:15 am  »

1)  camping in the bottom of the map have an unfair advantage

this is called map control. understanding it is a huge advantage is the first step to not sucking at pvp. however it is completely fair as every class can take map control and every class gets the same benefit from it the main focus in your duel should be to obtain it and defend it at all costs. a noob will camp at the bottom to maintain map control however more experienced players will learn to cover the entire map while maintaining it.

Its just silly to suggest any thing like banning the bottom of the graveyard. there will simply be a new bottom of the map that has the most advantageous map control. and I assure you banning these kinds of things will simply drive away any skilled players from the league.

20

Rules & development / Re: Ruleversion 1.2.6 [Open Discussion]

« on: March 24, 2013, 15:06:57 pm  »

Blud considering monks over all I fully agree but once you have played a monk that has mastered dashing strike micro you will be one shotted in the time it takes haunt to travel from u to ur opponent. it is impposible to out run ds, there are no counter I have found. if zombie wall stopped ds I wouldnt be making these posts. Of all the players and builds I have faced I say no question that monk vs wd is the hardest match up for wd if the monk knows their stuff. Id even wagger that in some future season of the league haunt will be allowed and wave of light will be banned for wd vs monk lol.

21

Rules & development / Re: Ruleversion 1.2.6 [Open Discussion]

« on: March 24, 2013, 12:04:42 pm  »

thanks for the response Darke. I cannot find any relevant wd vs monk vids in that thread though. the only clips with a monk in them is a monk using a shield which is a big mistake for the monk vs wd from my experience. No matter how good the monk I can still beat 1hmonk even without haunt . but monk geared properly with two hand one shots even on no crit through tank gear. and ur play by play is not very accurate haha

any way thats my two cents on the rules. good luck with the league. hope you keep it simple n ill join when im back home and able to play again in two months.

ps. dont ban gear switch! the only full switch I ever had to do is to counter wotb runners and if wotb/hex is banned its already taken care of. gear switch ban = less action and more administrative boring shit in town.

22

Rules & development / Re: Ruleversion 1.2.6 [Open Discussion]

« on: March 24, 2013, 05:00:20 am  »

its easier to ban all gear swap than specific gear swap but imo its much better for the development of the pvp scene and the players to just allow all gear swap in that case. no gear swap just reduces skill cap.

Blud I have many pvp gear set including top 10 wd pvp dummy in the world, top top 20 world wd dps and top 10 world wd ehp on diabloprogress. I have found it a great advantage to have a variety of gear to adjust for each of my opponents.

Please before you dismiss this just have a chat with viri. I appologize if what I wrote was offensive to you or anyone it is not my intention to come across this way. Just want to make the point that if one monk can do it so can all the others learn. but if you introduce a rule like this then you are slowing the development of a lot of players who will rely on this handicap instead of learning the counters without it.

23

Rules & development / Re: Ruleversion 1.2.6 [Open Discussion]

« on: March 24, 2013, 04:04:26 am  »

blud go find player viri. you will understand how good a skilled monk can be vs wd. once monk learns good micro and how to use their cd's its simply in their favor with ds + bell 1 shoting any tank set up.  even wd camping on island can be defeated by monk once micro is mastered.

24

Rules & development / Re: Ruleversion 1.2.6 [Open Discussion]

« on: March 24, 2013, 02:23:51 am  »

hey I think the class balance are a lot better here than in 1.2.5

Two suggestions for the wd rules;

- all haunt runes should be banned vs wiz. I think banning all pets not needed but its possible for wd to go glass cannon and just snipe wiz with 2s sec haunt while staying out of range of storm armor.

- haunt can not be banned vs monk. wd vs monk is already in monk favor. wd has 0% chance to defeat a good monk without haunt. any monks having trouble vs wd is simply because they use wrong build/gear and have bad micro. Im not writing this to show off and I know a lot of monks dont want to accept this but it is the simple truth. Please contact player viri#1357 monk on america server to learn some monk vs wd skills.

I would like to suggest that any league rules be made optional on a player agreed upon match basis. Having played most of the top pvpers on the america server I know many would not see the need or the desire to have any rules designed to compensate for lack of skill. both players would need to agree to waive the rules at the start or they apply. this way the handicap applies where it is needed and does not interfere in a match where it is not. 

Also what is the reasoning behind removing gear swap in a fight? I feel this is a bad direction to go as it slows the match down and removes a lot of skill/strategy and apm available to top level players. I think only place where gear swap needs to be looked at is full tank gear swap for running during cooldown.

25

Rules & development / Re: Ruleversion 1.2.5

« on: March 21, 2013, 13:37:30 pm  »

Darke that is some interesting stuff but doesnt change the fact that for a monk to go def vs wd is a big mistake and in fact monk is the hardest class for wd to play against if monk has good micro. actually this match up very much favors monk if proper gear (2h) and good micro is learned.

you are proposing handicap for monk vs wd simply to compensate monks bad choice in build and gear and lack of micro skills. even undergeared monk can defeat worlds best gear wd with mastery of map control and micro. if you implement handicap monks will stop progressing skills and simply rely on handicap to even match up.

26

Rules & development / Re: Ruleversion 1.2.5

« on: March 21, 2013, 04:36:16 am  »

what is it you do not like about my suggestion? I think removing attacks instead of def skills is a much better option to ballance. wiz does have some very effective offence with tele with wave of force rune + blast + wave of force. with good micro can dish out 900+ wep dmg instantly just too many wiz give up on pvp before finding good pvp build but also they are lacking in def against dots imo. thats why i suggest remove the dots attack vs them.

27

Rules & development / Re: Ruleversion 1.2.5

« on: March 21, 2013, 04:13:58 am  »

sry if u guys only take that from my post.

my advice on what changes would be good for a competitive league at this time: ban certain attacks vs wiz.  do no ban non attacks vs wiz. for example ban haunt for wd vs wiz. ban impale for dh vs wiz. ban rend for barb vs wiz ban wave of light for monk vs wiz. something like that. I know from experience other class changes not needed for even fight vs wd. not sure if other non wd matchups are imballanced or simply counter not well known.

Darke i cant give u a simple answer to that I use many different gear set ups that all change the dmg. I do know monk is the hardest class for me to play against if the monk knows how to play well and has good micro. once you get good at ds micro monk actually has a equal range to wd. and about 7times the dmg output per second. even budget geared skilled monk can beat worlds best geared wd.

28

Rules & development / Re: Ruleversion 1.2.5

« on: March 20, 2013, 14:11:29 pm  »

I simply wanted to bring to your awareness that although they are not common knowledge yet, that there are strats and builds currently existing that if geared properly for will allow barb, monk, and dh to beat equally geared wd without any additional handicaps. But sorry Im not planning to write a guide about how to do it for every class.

29

Rules & development / Re: Ruleversion 1.2.5

« on: March 20, 2013, 09:18:45 am  »

yes I am wd with many different gear sets to max different builds including world top 10 pvp dummy, worlds highest dps haunt, worlds top 10 ehp wd.

I played more than 300 players in ptr before I find one that can beat me. Now I have met 2 barbs, 2 monks, 1 dh, 1 wd. that has good play against wd of over 1000 different players looking always for the best. These players use very different gear/builds than the majority of players I face, therefore with just 300 players in eu I think its very possible that all simply just lacking knowledge of proper gearing/build for fighting wd.

wd is hard to play against because very little tolerence for mistake in gearing, build or micro. but when you figure it out any class except wiz can go 50/50 vs worlds best wd. just my experience from hundreds of hours of pvp.

if player makes mistake in gearing/build/play its not possible to beat good wd but rules should not be made to compensate for players mistakes imo. If these rules are implemented and players can go 50/50 against wd then they will stop testing new builds/gear and stop improving. Never learn to beat wd without handicap. never master pvp.

for other classes its the same just lacking knowledge and proper gear. monk vs wd must use 2h but monk vs dh must go full ehp/regen/shield. any monk with only one set will be weak vs either wd or dh. it is not needed to give monk handycap simply because they choose to have 1 gear set and loose, when they have option to go 2 gear set and win.

same for wd need two different gear set vs monk and dh or loose.

30

Rules & development / Re: Ruleversion 1.2.5

« on: March 20, 2013, 08:00:14 am  »

Sad to see the direction this league is going with the implementation of so many superfluous rules.

Although I did not get a chance to participate in the league I signed up to since it started so late in america, I have 1v1 brawled against more 1000 different high level players since ptr was released.

The only issue I see as needed is handicap for wiz. I I think it would be best to ban certain attacks instead of any passive, defensive abilities against wiz.

It seems to me that a lot of the currently proposed rules are brought about by lack practice, skill or knowledge by participants of certain classes in the eu league. I can only comment on matches of wd vs other classes but I can tell you with certainty that with proper gearing and skill; monks, barbs, dh are very ballanced against a top level wd. It is simply that currently still very few players understand how to correctly gear and play against the different wd builds. It is very likely that in a pool of only 300 players not one knows how to optimally play or gear against wd yet. I feel this lack of knowledge and skill of the majority is no reason to introduce so many extra restrictions on players.

Also very disapointed to see you want to remove gear switch from the league. The one place I see gear switch currently being abused is with players using very long cooldown skills such as wotb and only engaging in combat during their cd. I agree any macros used to switch gear is a definite unfair advantage that should not be allowed but removing gear switch entirely removes a large part of the skill and knowledge from a duel.

hope you guys can figure it out.