76
Rules & development / Re: Ruleversion 1.2.5
« on: March 18, 2013, 19:33:53 pm »
Maybe Rice has better favor to the RNG goddess lol? That is everything in those duels, dodge dodge goose.
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77
Rules & development / Re: Ruleversion 1.2.5
« on: March 18, 2013, 17:59:02 pm »
I think that is to cover the abuse currently of challenges just being cancelled. I challenged several opponents before, and they will come up with some excuse to just say they are collecting equipment or something to stall a few days. After a few days, the challenge just disappears and I can't re-challenge.
Also, what rules will be in place if two players cannot agree on each others equipment before saying "okay"? An example of this would be a stunning build against a Barbarian, the Barbarian will see the build and set Juggernaut passive, the other player will see the Juggernaut passive and change to non-stunning skills. Then the Barbarian will see the non-stunning skills and switch to a non-Juggernaut passive, and then the other player sees that change and sets the stunning skills again, and around and around we go!
Returning to DH specific rule discussion (I posted some similar opinions earlier but I will condense them here):
Against Barbarians, I don't feel the War Cry ban fully justified but I do agree that playing hit and run to reset is annoying (for both the Barbarian and the DH). The Barbarian wins that scenario since they regenerate life and cooldowns faster than a DH regenerates life and discipline in general (non-legacy). Perhaps there can be other limitations to EHP aside from War Cry, because as noted by others, Barbarians will simply use Overpower - Crushing Advance instead now to a similar effect.
Against Monks, I feel the Chemical Burn disables the DH offensive power by too much. My experience against good Monks is with Chemical Burn I win 80% of the time, without Chemical Burn I win 30% of the time; which is a huge difference. The reason is that the duels last considerably longer and I must not get hit for a longer period of time. Monks do such incredible damage with their Spirit spending skills now that, on critical hits, they can 1-shot almost any DH. DH also have no second chance ability, so 1-shot and it's over. Whereas Monks take 3-4 high powered critical hits to take down if they have the EHP (due to Serenity, Near Death Experience, and possibly potions if they stack bonus to heath globes and potions). Also, in general, Monks have higher dodge chance than DH and with our discipline limitations (non-legacy), we cannot win that war of attrition (especially if most hits are simply missing the Monk). I propose either a different change to DH such as Sharpshooter ban, or an additional restriction of Near Death Experience banned with Chemical Burn banned.
Against WD, I feel this match up is slightly in favor of the WD (non-legacy DH), but is not so much that they need to lose both Summon Zombie Dogs AND either Spirit Vessel or Spirit Walk. I propose just Spirit Vessel or Spirit Walk be banned (at the choice of the WD), and leave the Zombie Dogs as is.
Against Wizard, I do admit there needs to be some adjustment for the Wizard's benefit. I propose either Battle Scars or Companion be banned but not both. Banning both adds too much of a benefit to the Wizard since they also have Unstable Anomaly which grants them a second chance. Without a form of mitigating Storm Armor between Smokescreens, this duel will be to heavily in favor of high DPS Wizards (Ray of Frost for example tears through my 1.5M EHP DH in less than a second)!
Against DH, nothing needs to be changed as both players can copy each others skills! Future rules can be made for legacy vs non-legacy however as this still is an open discussion. Again, my opinion on the fact is: if I (non-legacy DH) can 1-shot a legacy DH I will win since they can unlikely 1-shot me; however, if both players cannot 1-shot each other, I will likely lose due to the meta game being simply Smokescreen, Vault, and Impale and no other build stands a chance at higher equipment levels.
Also, what rules will be in place if two players cannot agree on each others equipment before saying "okay"? An example of this would be a stunning build against a Barbarian, the Barbarian will see the build and set Juggernaut passive, the other player will see the Juggernaut passive and change to non-stunning skills. Then the Barbarian will see the non-stunning skills and switch to a non-Juggernaut passive, and then the other player sees that change and sets the stunning skills again, and around and around we go!
Returning to DH specific rule discussion (I posted some similar opinions earlier but I will condense them here):
Against Barbarians, I don't feel the War Cry ban fully justified but I do agree that playing hit and run to reset is annoying (for both the Barbarian and the DH). The Barbarian wins that scenario since they regenerate life and cooldowns faster than a DH regenerates life and discipline in general (non-legacy). Perhaps there can be other limitations to EHP aside from War Cry, because as noted by others, Barbarians will simply use Overpower - Crushing Advance instead now to a similar effect.
Against Monks, I feel the Chemical Burn disables the DH offensive power by too much. My experience against good Monks is with Chemical Burn I win 80% of the time, without Chemical Burn I win 30% of the time; which is a huge difference. The reason is that the duels last considerably longer and I must not get hit for a longer period of time. Monks do such incredible damage with their Spirit spending skills now that, on critical hits, they can 1-shot almost any DH. DH also have no second chance ability, so 1-shot and it's over. Whereas Monks take 3-4 high powered critical hits to take down if they have the EHP (due to Serenity, Near Death Experience, and possibly potions if they stack bonus to heath globes and potions). Also, in general, Monks have higher dodge chance than DH and with our discipline limitations (non-legacy), we cannot win that war of attrition (especially if most hits are simply missing the Monk). I propose either a different change to DH such as Sharpshooter ban, or an additional restriction of Near Death Experience banned with Chemical Burn banned.
Against WD, I feel this match up is slightly in favor of the WD (non-legacy DH), but is not so much that they need to lose both Summon Zombie Dogs AND either Spirit Vessel or Spirit Walk. I propose just Spirit Vessel or Spirit Walk be banned (at the choice of the WD), and leave the Zombie Dogs as is.
Against Wizard, I do admit there needs to be some adjustment for the Wizard's benefit. I propose either Battle Scars or Companion be banned but not both. Banning both adds too much of a benefit to the Wizard since they also have Unstable Anomaly which grants them a second chance. Without a form of mitigating Storm Armor between Smokescreens, this duel will be to heavily in favor of high DPS Wizards (Ray of Frost for example tears through my 1.5M EHP DH in less than a second)!
Against DH, nothing needs to be changed as both players can copy each others skills! Future rules can be made for legacy vs non-legacy however as this still is an open discussion. Again, my opinion on the fact is: if I (non-legacy DH) can 1-shot a legacy DH I will win since they can unlikely 1-shot me; however, if both players cannot 1-shot each other, I will likely lose due to the meta game being simply Smokescreen, Vault, and Impale and no other build stands a chance at higher equipment levels.
78
Rules & development / Re: Monk vs DH balance
« on: March 17, 2013, 03:38:10 am »
Played against rice now, I couldn't win w/o chem burn. It is like 30%DH-70%Monk if chem burn is banned, he has great EHP and DPS so I feel something should be banned OTHER than chem burn, maybe sharpshooter or ban something of monks in exchange for burn like blinding flash. I know this seems crude, but battles that are all RNG with favor to the Monk in terms of probability, are simply not fun. Sure I can win a few, but like I said, Monk has higher % chance to win due to RNG of dodge and stuff (his attacks 1-shot me, I have to crit 3-4 times to kill him). Another alternative is to ban Near Death Experience.
79
Rules & development / Re: Ruleversion 1.2.5
« on: March 17, 2013, 03:09:31 am »
Lost to rice with chem burn ban, I think we need to reconsider lol. I had little chance against him w/o it.
80
Rules & development / Re: Ruleversion 1.2.5
« on: March 17, 2013, 01:48:11 am »I like when my opponent use Skorn, don't ban it guys, pls:P
Yeah, I would ban shield over skorn if I could choose lol.
81
Rules & development / Re: Ruleversion 1.2.5
« on: March 17, 2013, 01:14:10 am »Hi there guys!
First of all, great job with all this rules:) I play wizz and I am still interesting in playing league. I have bad feelings about Monk's Wave of light, but I have not tested rules yet. I really can't wait to do so. However, did you think about ban Skorn completely? I use Skorn at the moment, but I think this weapon gives huge advantage. I know it is cheap and everyone can buy it, but did you consider forbidding Skorn?
E: If u need another wizz to test rules, feel free to ask me on BN, zbayno#2442
As long as you don't ban my Mantiskorn.
82
Rules & development / Re: Monk vs DH balance
« on: March 16, 2013, 23:32:32 pm »Banning sharpshooter can be hard to enforce and prove that dh useing so they can cheating..
they gonna say "it's just lucky and high cc rate".
We need to ban chemical burn for start. It's much easier to prove.
Easy to check skills before both players say "go", if you see the DH is using Sharpshooter, just say "hey bro, stop using the Monkpwner passive lol".
83
Rules & development / Re: Ruleversion 1.2.5
« on: March 15, 2013, 20:10:55 pm »
LOL someone woke up on the wrong side this morning. I can score kills on Revrac, Cyon, and Mystical, so I don't think I'm that far from top. You can ask them directly for their opinions about me. Per Spiral's request, let's stop talking about duped items and keep the discussion constructive.
84
Rules & development / Re: Ruleversion 1.2.5
« on: March 15, 2013, 19:38:24 pm »
I played against Kimsulki84, a decent monk with good experience yesterday and I was determined to win without Chemical Burn. The duels lasted a LOT longer and it played out almost like a DH vs Barb match. The monk retreats when his Serenity is down and I fire some Impale - Overpenetration at him but they wiff 70% of the time lol. Then the match resets and we try again, and again, and again until either A) I get lucky and hit him a couple times in a row or B) he gets lucky and catches me with his Wave of Light - Explosive Wave at an odd angle. I had the upper-hand but the monk got impatient and complained about long duels lol (I wonder what he would say if he saw DH vs Barb duels).
85
The Demon Hunter / Re: DH vs Rest (TacticZ+Little guide)
« on: March 15, 2013, 18:17:37 pm »
Bat companion vs Marked for Death: against Barbarians, Marked for Death increases my damage output by about 12% and is very easy to apply; I can even apply it through walls! Now for Impale - Impact, the way this works is with high cost reduction and Marked for Death effectively returns another 3 hatred per shot, whereas the bat only returns 3 hatred per second. In short bursts of damage by emptying my hatred pool, I need the hatred returned faster so Marked for Death is more effective. And I do have a "shitload" of damage when I use Sharpshooter + Steady Aim (~550k DPS another +30% from SoJ).
Lastly, regarding Hungering Arrow vs Evasive Fire: both are solid options against Barbarians and have different advantages. However, Hungering Arrow has one particular advantage that sets is above; it can shoot around corners. This allows the DH to poke the hiding Barbarian without moving into a Rend or spending discipline to vault to another angle. Two popular hiding places where Barbs like to hide are around the small building in the graveyard and around the statue at the very top of the map. I can force a Barb to move with hungering arrow by shooting on either side of those structures (alternating if they move back and forth) without approaching.
Lastly, regarding Hungering Arrow vs Evasive Fire: both are solid options against Barbarians and have different advantages. However, Hungering Arrow has one particular advantage that sets is above; it can shoot around corners. This allows the DH to poke the hiding Barbarian without moving into a Rend or spending discipline to vault to another angle. Two popular hiding places where Barbs like to hide are around the small building in the graveyard and around the statue at the very top of the map. I can force a Barb to move with hungering arrow by shooting on either side of those structures (alternating if they move back and forth) without approaching.
86
Rules & development / Re: Ruleversion 1.2.5
« on: March 15, 2013, 18:03:53 pm »
I don't know how this topic derailed from PVP balance discussion to a duped item thread. I will state again: I purchased my Manticore with hard earned money; I can post a screenshot of the RMAH transaction if needed to prove that I did not dupe this item. Furthermore, the price of an item should be irrelevant to this discussion of PVP balance, if you cannot afford something, duped or not, then that is your problem, not the league's problem. It is absurd to change a lot of players' equipment "for the sake of the league". If you want to buy me a Manticore which provides me equal or greater DPS, I will gladly trade mine in exchange. Lastly, I wholeheartedly disagree with your "dupes also affect the pvp balance a lot"; I see no grounds for this.
Now, to return to the actual topic, I have been seeing more discussion of legacy nats vs non-legacy nats in various threads and I would like to comment again on my opinion. I am one of the few successful non-legacy nat DH in the US league and I think the new set is fine in terms of balance. I have played the same players that MysticaL has and I never felt my matches were utterly hopeless. With regards to non-legacy vs legacy; at the top level of gear (around where MysticaL and I are), I think the legacy set does provide an advantage in that the legacy DH can simply force the non-legacy DH to waste discipline by excessively using smokescreen. This is the only match-up I currently feel is almost hopeless (I require more luck than anything to win).
Now, to return to the actual topic, I have been seeing more discussion of legacy nats vs non-legacy nats in various threads and I would like to comment again on my opinion. I am one of the few successful non-legacy nat DH in the US league and I think the new set is fine in terms of balance. I have played the same players that MysticaL has and I never felt my matches were utterly hopeless. With regards to non-legacy vs legacy; at the top level of gear (around where MysticaL and I are), I think the legacy set does provide an advantage in that the legacy DH can simply force the non-legacy DH to waste discipline by excessively using smokescreen. This is the only match-up I currently feel is almost hopeless (I require more luck than anything to win).
87
Rules & development / Re: Ruleversion 1.2.5
« on: March 15, 2013, 09:06:18 am »
They should stop the dupers. It is not the fault of the AH buyer that an item is duped. I paid good money for it, $200.00 USD Battlenet currency (I sold a lot of items to earn it). I don't see how this is the fault of the current owner and not the person who actively cheated to dupe the item.
88
The Demon Hunter / Re: DH vs Rest (TacticZ+Little guide)
« on: March 14, 2013, 17:47:04 pm »
I have had a recent success using Impale - Impact vs Barbs. I apply Marked for Death - Mortal Enemy and equip Impale cost -9 equipment (if you can get more -cost go for it). Next, I fire a few Impales at the Barb when they approach, if I stun and hit them a few times, they will usually apply Ignore Pain. At this point I stop, and retreat while I regenerate my hatred. Once I am back to full hatred I engage the Barb in a spot not excessively close to a corner (so that if they move a little I can still hit them). I unload my entire Hatred pool with Impacts and I will usually kill them! For this setup, I sometimes switch out Sharpshooter for Archery. Of course the Barb can use Juggernaut passive against this build, but the Barbs I've faced didn't want to give up Unforgiving or Relentless for it, and NO Barb will EVER give up Inspiring Presence.
Against WD, a new trick (thanks to MysticaL and other DH) is to use Spike Trap - Sticky Trap against WD who like to use Zombie Dogs. This skill is even more effective if the WD uses Sacrifice to kill their own dogs as they will be in for a nasty surprise!
Against WD, a new trick (thanks to MysticaL and other DH) is to use Spike Trap - Sticky Trap against WD who like to use Zombie Dogs. This skill is even more effective if the WD uses Sacrifice to kill their own dogs as they will be in for a nasty surprise!
89
Rules & development / Re: Ruleversion 1.2.5
« on: March 13, 2013, 22:47:41 pm »
That 100% dodge monk happens to be in the US league! If we impose a ban on chemical burn, I would like to impose a limit to dodge chance vs DH to not exceed 70% or another reasonable number (this can be calculated before the match based on Dexterity and skills).
90
Rules & development / Re: Ruleversion 1.2.5
« on: March 13, 2013, 21:39:52 pm »
I said the proposed change was ok, but there are monks out there that have 90% dodge chance or something ridiculous. It seems kind of stupid to duel them if the whole game is luck and no skill, I can go to a casino for that lol. If the monks are capped to no more than 70% buffed dodge chance, then I think the rules could work.
Edit: And in case you don't know what I'm talking about:
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7978878101
Edit: And in case you don't know what I'm talking about:
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7978878101