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[error]

Anything with timer is clueless and heavily abused. History proved it. You play with watch or enjoy dueling?

I don't personally like to play with watch but I have a wife and a kid and the last think I want when I come home is chasing people for 20 minutes arround the map. Or even worse, not being able to kill them by any means. I want to enjoy this game and fool arround with the pvp option while having fun. But I may consider playing with watch as a solution.

We should be aware of current abuses with the challenge and rating ladder. I don't know if it's being already controlled but you can actually clog the challenge queue and minimize your challenge window availability to other people. I think one should have 10 limited challenge options but being always able to be challenged by anyone. Also there should be a timeout for incoming challenges so anyone wouldn't be allowed to delay an encounter without punishment. I just like to punish.
I also think it isn't good that you can duel against players with more than 100 score difference (up or down).

[Euronymous]

Error, I don't really see why banning a few skills depending on match-ups forces us to use "cookie-cutter" builds. If anything it breaks cookie-cutter builds, forcing you to get more creative and explore other ways to defeat your opponents.
The most obvious example right now is Hex vs. Barbs. You will not find a WD not using it in a league match. Ban it and you will find at least a few different skills replacing it. They are all not as good as Hex obviously, that's why everyone used Hex before, but they will all be viable in certain situations.
It's such an obvious and easy change and will greatly improve that match-up. It's easy to monitor too, if you're not seeing the doll your opponent isn't using Hex
How do you plan to balance classes without limitations anyway?

Another rule I'd like to see is:
No item-switching during a round. I've seen (not on d3cl yet, but on PTR and streams) people go from full DPS to full tank within a second or do all kinds of tricks. Swapping gear should result in a auto-loss (0-5) and a warning. Multiple warnings should result in a ban from the league.
Sometimes it might not be easy to see or prove it, but the rule alone should prevent most people from doing it.

[error]

First of all I see banning skills in certain match-ups as a viable solution but it's not the best solution from my point of view. Is the way you use the skill mechanics what makes it OP, not the skill itself. For example if you ban Hex from WD-Barb encounters you are killing the built "Tank WD that uses Hex to avoid being damaged". We should be able to figure out every built/gear from every class or we will have many problems trying to come up with the skill balancing encounters table.

About the item switching this is very true and this is actually happening. That's why I got the idea from the "default" built that should also be extended to gear. Any player should know what's going to be used by the opponent every round because a built for some classes is skills and gear specific. Switching gear in the middle of the combat is the same as switching skills without having the 30 seconds penalty.

From this point, knowing what skills/gear are default for every player it should be easier to control match-ups vs other classes.

[mannercookie]

the rules of this league is going to cause 1 hour+ long matches by ppl going stalemate specs.

need something like this for pvp to work

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7908401111?page=3#51

______________________________
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[Damx]

the rules of this league is going to cause 30 min - 1 hour long matches by ppl going stalemate specs.

need something like this for pvp to work

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7908401111?page=3#51

from my experiences the only way any kind of competitive dueling can take place is something like this.

this is the only way to deal with the "stale-mate specs/setups" when often that's not the case but it's a matter of re-specing and gearing towards your opponent's build/spec.

This also keeps the game's other fun side which is gearing up your character a certain way and progressing slowly to the perfect ideal character you would like to have.

I personally use a PVP set of over 30 items that I inter-change depending on my opponent's gear setup and their spec that they use with that gear setup. I rarely use the same generic gear set for one class, which I think is a very interesting part of d3 pvp.

For example I could have make a high burst, low ehp, high regen build vs a low dps, high ehp, low regen geared class/spec or visa versa, and balancing in between the two extremes and finding the perfect sweet spot vs each opponent is very interesting part of the fights since not everyone does the exact same amount of dps and have the same amount of ehp.

anyhow I think these two things are key to make pvp work without having to have gear sets that are perfectly balanced to d3 pvp.

1.) It should be a dueling system where if you win 3x in a row you win the match as opposed to winning best out of xxx, it really takes the randomness out of the crit/one shot builds and the cheese builds which takes a round or two to figure out and counter.

this also brings the rock,paper,scissor element back into the game which is an interesting part of d3 pvp.

it shows to a certain degree who the better player was for that match with this setup.

2.) There needs to be a timer on the rounds in a match, for example 1 round = 5 mins.

I think 5 mins is the perfect timer for a round, before it would reset and each player who would have to back to town re-spec/re-gear or do something to try and win and not be a stalemate.

This is a must-have imo, since a lot of players in d3 pvp scene now gear/spec to just try and not die and cause stalemates which honestly just ruins pvp in general.

So a match would go something like this

- first player enters town, puts on gear/spec they want to use, enters chapel
- second player enters town, does the same and enters.
- flags down, round started
- loser respec/regear if need be, re-enter
- winner respec/regear if need be, re-enter
- if stale-mate, both will respec/regear one at a time and re-enter

- first person to win 3 in a row or most wins within 30 mins is the winner of the match

Also in regards to gear-switch, I think gear-swaps should be allowed but limited to certain item slots, not entire gear.

You can have two completely extreme sets of gear that favor different scenarios but still using the same spec, some classes can do this, while others can not.

The classes that can not are at a big dis-advantage.

I believe gear-swaps during rounds should be limited to rings,amulets only, since often you can add in a SOJ and that could be the difference between you being able to down your opponent or not while at the same time it could be the difference of surviving or dying.

and MACROS? lol, that would kill this game for pvp.

The fact that you need so many different gear setups for each situation is what gives this patch longevity and will make it enjoyable longer.

your post from the link
no need to thanks

[Spirals]

keep it coming guys - we are installing and working out the first points of input you put the discussion here!

[Cerbero-TBA]

ban pig of wd!

[RoGH]

the rules of this league is going to cause 1 hour+ long matches by ppl going stalemate specs.

need something like this for pvp to work

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7908401111?page=3#51

Just some small feedback for now: remember that we should try to implement rules which arent easy to avoid, which dont give a lot of space for cheaters.
So for example we can ban items switching during round, but there is no way to check if someone isnt switching his gear, especialy when its only about jewelry.
I also enjoy gear and skill setup possibilities in d3 for each duels or even specific enemy, but we also need to remember that rules should be realistic, as simple as possible and POSSIBLE TO ENFORCE...we need to remember that there will be plenty of bad mannered guys, cheaters or simply pvp noobs

[MoKKaL]

i vote to ban SKORN (and similar 2handers) if used with DOT's (Rend, Haunt, Exploding Palm)
if this thing crits (and just then - and really just with a 2hander) there's almost no chance to survive, even with the following stats:
1080 AR
6423 Armor
2949 LReg
52k HP (ok this is low)
1,15 mio eHP

from a wizz PoV ... due the fact that a DOT spell doesnt trigger Illusionist AND cant be dodged (at least ive never seen me dodging it even with 26%), theres only 2 opportunities:
- RUN to avoid another DOT (u just cant run away against WotB Barbs and TR Monks)
- Deal with it and try to kill faster (IF necessaray ... WD's spirit walk away, WotB Barbs easily run away, and TR Monks easly run away aswell)

Yesterday was a bit depressing
Ive played MU's where it was pretty even, until my enemies took out their skorn.
After that, the match was one sided and over in "seconds" (ok, not that fast, but i think u know what i mean ^^)

Is my Idea to "childish" and i should try to get more VIT (i should do this anyway) and adopt?
or is my concern about 2handed-DOT's realistic?

Thx and regards
MoKK

[Mr.Mag]

This is a must-have imo, since a lot of players in d3 pvp scene now gear/spec to just try and not die and cause stalemates which honestly just ruins pvp in general.

100% agree

[GREEN2172]

Here we go again...
1. Judges CANNOT check if someone change items/1 skill during round.
2. Judges CANNOT ban some skills - if they will do it everyone must record their fights with fraps.
3. Judges CANNOT make time limit rounds - if they will do it everyone must record their fights with fraps.
4. The only way is to make hp cap limit - in normal fight you can make a screenshot in town with your enemy to see how much HP you both have, and if he will have ingame more hp->screenshot and automaticlly w/o.

[MoKKaL]

4. The only way is to make hp cap limit - in normal fight you can make a screenshot in town with your enemy to see how much HP you both have, and if he will have ingame more hp->screenshot and automaticlly w/o.

thats a pretty neat idea
- screenshot of the current life before a fight
- and IF u see the life lower/higher on your enemy take a quick screenshot during the fight to see the different life.

But, call me noobish - do u see the life bar (numbers!) during a fight?

[GREEN2172]

Hmm, not sure about it:D To fast fights always:D In town 100%, I always check hp of enemy to set my tactics:P If you cannot check in-game this is uncheckable too...;/

[devilek666]

Hmm

I've read all the topic and based on what I read, must say that most people except Euronymous say what the would like to see, so they can win every matchup..

I think You complicate too much guys...from Barb point of view I think that...

In Barb vs WD - barb can't use Berserker and WD can't use Hex.
In Barb vs DH - barb can't use berserker and DH can't use Legacy Natalia set.
In Barb vs Monk - barb can't use Berserker and Monk have to choose either Serenity or Near Death Experience Passive (having both in this matchup is very unbalanced, I've seen Monks going astonishing DPS that pretty much 1 shoot every Barb with every attack and still having 2 extra lifes, but this need more testing to be sure)
Barb vs Wizz - i've changed my mind. Wizz DON'T need any buff, just need to learn how to use their skills.

p.s. I agree with MannerCookie..gear swap during fight shouldn't be allowed, only rings+amulets..at this point WD is immortal..he puts tank gear to survive barbs Berserker and after 15 seconds swap to DPS gear owning Barb easly...

just this 5  simple to execute changes would make games so much more interesting and shorter!

EDIT
p.s. of course Barb vs DH would work assumed that DH can't go this stupid scorpion style...bunker in turret on the island.

[Lilith]

@devilek

Why dh shound use legacy nat vs barb? U need only good timing to kill dh, WalkingTall, Vimer kill me easy, NoF3ar kill me as many times as i kill him, and i have much more expensive gear.