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[Crensh]

mannercookie you look at WDs from barb's perspective. WD is not "useless" vs monk for instance.
I do agree with you about the DH tho. Was surprised to see no actual nerfs to DH.

[Lilith]

mannercookie you look at WDs from barb's perspective. WD is not "useless" vs monk for instance.
I do agree with you about the DH tho. Was surprised to see no actual nerfs to DH.

We no have top gear, so what we know about pvp? WD is very weak on brawling and its the reason why in top two are Blud and Keen, when Kaio with one of best class(wizz) for pvp is at 23 place^^

[Kako]

@mannercookie (ur nickname is kinda sarcastic) u think u are so cOOl with that barb, stacked ehp like crazy, with 70k dps can kill all, coz of 900% dot imba skill, with passive regeneratin 2% hp everysec, with perma sprint? nope, ur not.

in matter of balances, i think that removing dot skills (rend, haunt, chem burn at impale) will balance matchups ALOT

[devilek666]

@mannercookie (ur nickname is kinda sarcastic) u think u are so cOOl with that barb, stacked ehp like crazy, with 70k dps can kill all, coz of 900% dot imba skill, with passive regeneratin 2% hp everysec, with perma sprint? nope, ur not.

in matter of balances, i think that removing dot skills (rend, haunt, chem burn at impale) will balance matchups ALOT

+1
want to see barb killing DH without rend  You have no idea about what You just said...

[Kako]

same story goes for dh, legacy nats have shity dps, cant kill barb in 2-3 hits, non legacy are running out of discipline pretty quick, and barb just need to rend once with crit to either kill or use 3x smokes + preparation

[Blud]

OK guys, let's pretend this guy never came here and let's keep testing and trying to balance things out.

My experience from testing vs Kaio:

You can inspect both of us and see that our gear is on the same level, with only one key difference, I have 3.8k regen from gear and passive. This makes a huge difference but aside from that, our stats are very similar.

WD vs Wiz.

Only one skill would have to be looked at and that is Zombie Dogs. However, perhaps NOT the whole skill, just the 10% DR rune, but this needs further testing. I welcome all good wizards in league (if any, cos most wizards pussy-quit) to add me for testing.

Some Wizards are starting to come up with effective builds, so those of you getting wiped by WDs, use your brains. I'm not going to start explaining what builds are effective vs WDs because thats your job. It might not be so easy as going youtube "wiz builds" xD.

This is also a message for those of you crying about bans and nerfs. There hasn't been enough testing, so do not panic. I don't think the admins will include rules that nobody agrees with after serious testing.

[Lilith]

@mannercookie (ur nickname is kinda sarcastic) u think u are so cOOl with that barb, stacked ehp like crazy, with 70k dps can kill all, coz of 900% dot imba skill, with passive regeneratin 2% hp everysec, with perma sprint? nope, ur not.

in matter of balances, i think that removing dot skills (rend, haunt, chem burn at impale) will balance matchups ALOT

Blizzard should make fix bug that we can't dodge dot's. Then we no need to ban skills.

[Blud]

LOL??

Not being able to dodge DoTs is not a BUG. It is intended to be this way. If they change this, then dodge must be reduced to the point in which most DHs have 35%ish dodge.

Just think for a second mate... How can you dodge bleed? It doesn't make sense, does it?

[predsr]

I think he meant impale maybe, if you dodge the initial imaple hit, it will still dot, makes no sense right?

[Lilith]

LOL??

For example I use impale vs you. U dodge impale but dot will deal dmg. this is lol. Why i can't dodge rend? Its strike with weapon when i can dodge jump, meteor, and another aoe skill or autoaim skills? It have no sens

[Blud]

OK some more feedback from some hours of serious testing... I mostly did it with Devil, best geared barbarian in league, but also with Iownyou, pretty well geared too.

We tried many things:

- No hex                                vs      No WotB
- No hex, no Spirit Vessel        vs      No WotB
- No horrify, no hex, no SV     vs      No WotB

I always managed to come up with a build that left Devil with no chance at all. WDs have so many stuns... Even without those 3 core skills in most WDs specs I managed to come up with so many builds that just irritated Devil cos he could do nothing. Even if people like MannerCookie say that WD suck, it's because they probably haven't dueled creative and good ones. The guy says he doesn't need WotB to beat a WD but it's just not possible. I doubt he has more EHP than Devil, and his dmg wouldn't be a big problem.

So our conclusion has been:

- WD cannot use 20% dmg HEX, all the other runes are allowed.
- Most important thing: swapping gear during combat is forbidden for both sides.
- WotB is the core skill for a barbarian, not only when it's active but also when it hasn't been activated. Knowing that a barb has WotB makes the WD act carefully trying to keep distance and trying to use the right timing to dps barbarian down and force him to go to Berserker. So duels actually become really fun without the stupid gear swapping thing. Obviously both sides have to be similarly geared, but it was said that balance should be achieved on high end level.

I know some will say "how do we know people don't swap gear?" well... We are all adults here, trying to create a competitive league, so let's behave like that, shall we? Besides, we can also take screenshots of their HP numbers if we see a drastic increase in our opponent's mitigation.

@To the Admins: Please, contact all top players in the current league to develop serious rules. What you have done so far makes no sense at all. I appreciate the job you are doing but they are plainly wrong. At least the ones I've tested thoroughly so far, WD vs Wiz, WD vs DH and WD vs Barb.

[Blud]

LOL??

For example I use impale vs you. U dodge impale but dot will deal dmg. this is lol. Why i can't dodge rend? Its strike with weapon when i can dodge jump, meteor, and another aoe skill or autoaim skills? It have no sens

The thing of impale is most likely a BUG, if the main hit doesn't do dmg then the DoT shouldn't apply.

Same for Rend, you should be able to dodge initial hit, but the bleed should apply entirely.

All those skills are actually HITS, not DoTs. It makes sense to dodge a fire ball falling from the sky, but how the hell do you dodge a bleeding effect... Damn, man, you are bleeding lol.

That said, DoTs might be a bit OP versus Dex classes atm, but also due to a lack of All res, Armour and Regen, particularly from DHs (even more when legacy).

[Lilith]

,,The thing of impale is most likely a BUG, if the main hit doesn't do dmg then the DoT shouldn't apply.

Same for Rend, you should be able to dodge initial hit, but the bleed should apply entirely.

All those skills are actually HITS, not DoTs''

I mean that what u said, but i suck in english and can't use right words:) So you agree with me that players should be able to dodge skills, that active DoT efects?

[Iria]

I really wish there was a way to compare EU and NA players and have them duel like in the PTR. Mannercookie is in the top 10 PVP players in Americas (out of all classes). I think he is #1 Barb in terms of skill and has VERY high end gear. He is the only Barb I know that beat Viri, the Barb-destroying Monk in Americas. Also, he is the toughest-to-defeat Barb for DH, and I mean top DH like Mystical, Cyon, Myon. I can maybe try him sometime when I get far better gear, but I don't expect to win w/o legacy. Revrac (#1 PVP Score DH) can only stalemate with these super tank Barbs by going full turtle.

I also agree with Mannercookie on the point of stalemates. There is nothing in place to prevent them or declare a winner. If there was a way to track damage, I would say the first to take 1000% of their max HP in damage should lose.

Also, something should be put in place for gear-swapping players (who usually use macros). I think this provides an unfair advantage, especially if the swapper's strategy is to use some powerful skills with a long cooldown and then retreat with super EHP/regen gear while waiting for the cooldown to end.

[DaRkE]

I dont know exactly how to explain it but you can see this 2 barbarians:

http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/N0F3aR-2714/hero/21182091     

http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/mannercookie-1362/hero/25507035



N0F3aR performed alot better versus me than mannercookie playing his eu barb, alot better.

I had 5-2 and 5-4 duels vs N0F3ar and 3 times 5-0 vs mannercookie.
Playing monk.
With this specefic barbarians , not his main tho.