Duelling & Diablo 3 > Rules & development
Creating Competitive-PVP
mannercookie:
@rogh
They released the new multiplayer info after I already wrote this up nonetheless
even though they are improving public pvp games.
I think for a league system this would be a good way to find potential matches.
all good points rogh
I think the first step it to make something happen and go from there.
The prizepool will grow to a decent amount by the time this tourney I'm trying to setup will run and in terms of participants having few hours to duel I'm not too worried about (can always use reserve players).
@ajantis
Yes 1.08 should fix these a few of the issues I mentioned in OP.
I think the fact that you have a chance to win a lot of gold will give more incentive to spend lots of gold and even without that incentive the players in the US are already spending a lot of gold on PVP.
on a side note, I read through the 1.08 preview notes, and can't wait to see all you guys on PTR.
Wittster:
I appreciate all the work you put into evolving pvp but I strongly disagree with your concept of incentives. As you can see in the popularity of this website so far, especially the EU part, people don't need any kind of gold rewards to put in the time, money and effort to play competitive pvp. People are playing for fun and competition atm but by inserting gold rewards, I'm sure you'll destroy a big part of the 'fun' in the equation and replace it with things like lame play, rules lawyering, negative feelings of being forced to spend real money just to be able to keep up. Basically what you will achieve is that the top players will spend even more gold to perfect their gear and the average players will realize even more that they will never be able to compete and just give up. To really make pvp grow, I think you have to keep a strong focus on the average player, as well as offering top competition for the 'elite'. Also I agree with others that it's hard for most of our player base to commit a whole evening to a tournament. I think this whole thing would be a much bigger success if you spread it out over a couple days weeks either as an invitational or as a league top8 playoff or something.
TLDR: I do agree we should offer some incentives for more people to play, but I think the keywords here are 'fun' as opposed to 'gold' and 'more players' as opposed to 'less'. We achieve fun by offering rules that are clear and simple and make duels balanced and quite honestly the whole setup of your pvp ideas and tournament are clearly based on you being an awesome dueller and feeling like you can take on anyone, but just look at all this this from a monk's or wizard's point of view or anyone who think he doesn't have a chance to beat you in a duel and you'll see you'll reduce the pvp community to about a handful of people and then you want that handful to all be able to play for a couple hours at the same exact time on top of that. Also, these people already have the gold to build perfect characters and the $-value of gold these days is negligible. I really don't understand what you're trying to achieve :)
Iria:
TLDR for Wittster's TLDR:
Let's duel for fun, we know your tournament is almost certainly set for you to win and show off lol.
mannercookie:
--- Quote from: Wittster on April 03, 2013, 15:22:27 pm ---I appreciate all the work you put into evolving pvp but I strongly disagree with your concept of incentives. As you can see in the popularity of this website so far, especially the EU part, people don't need any kind of gold rewards to put in the time, money and effort to play competitive pvp. People are playing for fun and competition atm but by inserting gold rewards, I'm sure you'll destroy a big part of the 'fun' in the equation and replace it with things like lame play, rules lawyering, negative feelings of being forced to spend real money just to be able to keep up. Basically what you will achieve is that the top players will spend even more gold to perfect their gear and the average players will realize even more that they will never be able to compete and just give up. To really make pvp grow, I think you have to keep a strong focus on the average player, as well as offering top competition for the 'elite'. Also I agree with others that it's hard for most of our player base to commit a whole evening to a tournament. I think this whole thing would be a much bigger success if you spread it out over a couple days weeks either as an invitational or as a league top8 playoff or something.
TLDR: I do agree we should offer some incentives for more people to play, but I think the keywords here are 'fun' as opposed to 'gold' and 'more players' as opposed to 'less'. We achieve fun by offering rules that are clear and simple and make duels balanced and quite honestly the whole setup of your pvp ideas and tournament are clearly based on you being an awesome dueller and feeling like you can take on anyone, but just look at all this this from a monk's or wizard's point of view or anyone who think he doesn't have a chance to beat you in a duel and you'll see you'll reduce the pvp community to about a handful of people and then you want that handful to all be able to play for a couple hours at the same exact time on top of that. Also, these people already have the gold to build perfect characters and the $-value of gold these days is negligible. I really don't understand what you're trying to achieve :)
--- End quote ---
I don't think D3CL is as popular as you think, maybe in the EU server (even then just a handful of the same players). Most players on the US server do not play in this league, out of like 50+ people on my list that PVP, only about 5 of them play in the D3CL league and very seldom at that to give you an idea of what the ratio is like (D3CL is not popular on US nor is it known).
I can think of so many good players on the US server that aren't spending the time/gold required to gear up for PVP, well simply because it's expensive and there's no point (good pvp items on US server get instantly bought out @ 2b or max bidded, good pvp items in EU generally sit there with everyone waiting for prices to drop)
I have been paying attention to both markets the past two weeks and I can tell you for a fact that on EU there is almost no competition for gear and there is very little interest in PVP on the whole in terms of the entire population (PVP gear is not being actively bought/sold and traded between players, meaning players who buy gear aren't able to sell their old pieces to get new, this disrupts their progression and forces them to find other avenues to get this gold)
Although you guys may have more people active in the league, there is a much larger player-pool in the US that are actively gearing for pvp and competing for gear and these players on the US already face all the negative problems you speak of in terms of feeling like they need to spend a lot of $$$$ to compete.
I really dis-agree with everything you said and I'm not sure you are qualified to label what is "fun". People want to see PVP played at a high level, that's what builds interest to the game not a league with 50,000 random players. There's a public pvp lobbys and games for a reason, for the average player who wants to casually PVP. A league should be comprised of people who are trying to achieve to be the best and highly competitive to keep it active and interesting.
Also, there is no problem on the US server for our player-base to all sit down on evening for an organized tournament.
I think you have a very skewed idea of what the PVP scene is like because you are basing all your opinions off of what's happened on a much smaller server that is oriented around PVE, well simply because that's the only active marketplace in the EU and the only way to acquire gold (unless your buying gold).
The player-pool and market is much larger and much more active on the US server, and to be frank you should learn what's going on in both servers and take the time to research it before you bash on me in a polite way across your forums.
Cheers
RoGH:
Wittster is playing on US server btw.
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