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[IMP-Executioner]

@ your present gear you have 17,3 mio ehp vs ranged 20 mio ehp vs melee and incredible high 27000 dps ... you can run this setup in pvp if u double your dps somehow^^

[Mr.Mag]

the league will start in the evening

[Euronymous]

as of my tests all "regular" pvp barbs maybe not vimer and devil will be melted by the new rapid fire rocket build + ballistic build because the bugged rockets do something like 500% weapon dps and no 145% + 50%.

Can someone confirm this? If it's bugged the rune should be banned temporarily until they fix it.

[DarkRaven]

@exe, 40k dps in pvp is just as useless as 27k, i'm only talking about pure stalemate builds.

in my regular gear i have 60-65k, we can check for 60k both and see what ehp we have if u want to compare gear.

i guess it will be pretty close, or slightly favorable to u, while i will have my ehp based more on mitigation, more regen on gear and more block

@euro, i didnt test yet vs dhs with this rune

[IMP-Executioner]

Raven the funtanks are no problem in pvp leaque... really not  i had it last season there were 2 tank demon hunters i couldnt kill with no setup... we agreed on stopping the duell and canceled the challenge... it was just easy

the aim on tank barb is to reach the needed ehp not to be killed and use the needed dps 40-60-80 k unbuffed to get the killscore thats what analytical pvp is about


And @all TANK-HATERS out there plz dont get me wrong - tank is no real pvp-setup or way to play competitive pvp it is what it always was an countersetup against the 50 k life 800 k dps glass-cannon guys. Especially sorc, dh and monk. Dont even think about using tankgear vs barb or wd-class!

And raven you talk always about prices ... if you have a 30+ billion barb and sin and tomas onehit you all the time the fun-factor is decreasing every time u lose  0 to 5 vs em.
Yes tank-gear is still cheap but for example @ us server not half as cheap as here. And if you want to have 15 mio ehp and 70 k dps its maybe the most expensive build! At the moment i am at 67 k dps unbuffed and 13,4 mio ehp in this kind of build and cant afford the prices for any new upgrade.

[predsr]

Tested the Ballistic passive dmg, and the dmg seems about right, i cant see anything abnormal there

[DarkRaven]

exe, i understand u fully, that is the goal of any pvp player, having enough ehp to not die while still being able to kill.... the problem is the last part, and from what ive tested 40k dps is just so easily tankable by almost all players, i rarely go below 50k dps. but the problem is when we, or others, just go on extreme tank while losing the ability to kill... that includes not only dropping dps, but also dropping ms and fury gain.

a clear example is vs dh, a barb without unforgiving  and with less than 12% ms is not looking for a balanced fight, he just wants to tank all damage while never being able to get a kill unless dh is afk.

also a wd with 150-200k hp and good mitigation with something like 60k vs barb is not looking to play pvp but just troll because he knows that with regular setup he would be severely out-geared.

the same with a tank legacy dh that just runs, any class can do this.

[IMP-Executioner]

Tested the Ballistic passive dmg, and the dmg seems about right, i cant see anything abnormal there

Hi pred, can you plz take new nat set + dps gear + rocket rune + ballistic and test the dmg @ normal barbs i have seen so many dying in the first 2 secs.

[IMP-Executioner]

@ Raven to be honest the tankgear is just a nice add to my calculations.... and worked incredible well vs sorc class and was designed to be able to stay alife after sin´s recources are out.

My goal was always and is still to use the tank setup and go 2-handed. There is a small window thats so difficult to reach where your ehp is enough to go 2-handed and at that moment you are just a killing-spree-mashine.

I have the best 2 hand weapon @ eu for this style but not the rest of the items so far. But if you have this you are world pvp-dummy-#1!  11 mio ehp - 2-handed barb having 90 k dps unbuffed using +30% dps rune will be the pvp ruler for long time and the needed items will be 10 billion each according to my thoughs.

I tried it last season and it worked so damn great vs all legacy users that they came up with the barb is op take em warcry away solution. As i had only 6 mio ehp it didnt worked any longer after the warcry nerf and generally vs new nat users. If i use 2 hand vs iria i am dead in 3 sec. If i reach 11 mio ehp in 2 hand i kill every dh no matter what thats a promise.

[Forti]

Can anyone explain me, why wd have no restrictions and rulez? vs. monk "haunt or firebats" - this is like no rulez @ 1.0.7.

[N0F3aR]

Here are my proposal about some balance:
   Barb vs DH - war cry - Rune Impunity and Rune Hardened Wrath not allowed. Others allowed. I will explain why. At last time DH improve their game play against barbs and they run/chase much better that before. Myself ( as barb) the fury and fury generation i have is not enough to catch and chase decent DH. For that i use SoJ with rend bonus. Oviously i go lower EHP for more dmg and mobility. No war cry impunity will force me to use rare ring,otherside i will have too low EHP. Some more fury generation or life/life regen would be good.
   Barb vs Wizard - no cc breaker means very very hard fight for barb against a decend Wizard. This patch Wizard got 2 very good buffs for PvP - RoF with more 65% dmg and much better teleport. Wizard can run and chase now much easier than before. So for barb is now harder to catch and to escape from Wizard. Teleport goes beyond on the walls (most of walls). Aslo the strong disable ability of Wizard could make barb to be stunned/frosted for like 5-6 + sec( and if ilusions are activated, that could last longer). No ignor pain in that case means death. I am on 171k life, 880 cold resist and 37% dodge chance, but that doesnt matter. Here is what i offer:
   1. WotB no Insanity rune - actually that is the rune that makes problems for the Wizards, since Barbs get double damage for the duration. Everything els is just a litle more stats and cc imunity for 15 sec. With the new teleport Wizard run to the other side of the map for short time. Or let say WotB no rune.
   2. If wotb is banned, wizard drop nova/stun/mirrors. Banning mirrors that stun/frost  may bring better balance. Or 1 of the disable skills.

Thx for the attention.

[MoKKaL]

@ barb vs wizz:

i tested vs nofear - and it was pretty one sided for me (wizz)
i tested vs darkraven and imo it was balanced in that case ...

nevertheless my thoughts:
- ban wotb
- ban mirror images --> rune: mirror mimics + mocking demise

--> barb cant roflstomp any wizz out there
--> barb cant be stunned to death
--> wizz can still negate Rend with other Mirror Images Rune

[Euronymous]

The thing is, most of the duels in D3 will be one-sided. Duels that go back and forth with unpredictable outcome are few and far between. No skill restrictions will ever change that.

Let's take your example

with current rules
easy win vs nofear
draw vs darkraven
hypothetically: loss vs top barbs (no offense to these 2 barbs)

If it's balanced around your duels vs nofear (e.g. no mocking demise on mirror mimics) it will just be a simple shift of powers to
draw vs nofear
loss vs darkraven
no chance vs top/tanky barbs

Is this better/more balanced? Who should judge that?

[IMP-Executioner]

i agree on euros opinion in this case if they (develop team d3cl) want to balance something they rely on the tests of the lets say top 3-5 of each class meassured by the last seasons results

so difficult to make wd rules if you dont take blud and co in mind and same with devil and vimer for barbs

yes its not fair at all and its pay to win somehow but its not possible to balance average gear vs average gear

[DarkRaven]

i think it has a lot to do with playstyle, barbs have to learn to adapt

i agree with euro that neither me or nofear are at vimer's level for example.

i do have more ehp than nofear and that helps, and i can go a lot higher on ehp.

vimer for ex has more dps, but 1 crit of mine does already more than 50% damage to mokkal, so if vimer has around 10-15% more damage on crit (with similar ehp to mine, from what  i've seen so far, although he has a lot of gearing options) he would need roughly the same number of crits, although he has more cc, which again is debatable because many of the hota shots are done at full fury after a stun for example, so the cc diference is not that big.

but a lot has to do with running around corners and breaking line of sight, barbs can no longer face tank wizzards, they have to play smart, if i just stay and get 2-3 stuns in a row i'm dead but if i run around corners, hota after charge and run before stun i sometimes can make it work.

i really want to see the result of vimer vs mokkal (who is so far the best wizard in d3cl, at least vs barbs). if vimer defeats him than the matchup is perfectly fine and it means other barbs are undergeared.

i dont think any bans are required now, but if mokkal defeats all barbs (including vimer) 5-0 than something could be tweaked afterwards.