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[N0F3aR]

Let me suggest something:
    - After season 1 ends, stop official league for short period and start Test league with the new rulz.
    - See what is going on and take good feedback.

Gl

[franq]

@franq: If you read my posts so closely you know that I wrote about NOT banning old nat, but making different rules:)
If new nat is so good, prO etc. as you said, why the hell you're using old?^^
I can argue with you all day, but I do not want to spam forum, then I will short my message to: everybody can give their feedback, so f*ck off from me:)

if legacy is so pro why the hell r u using new? same question u ask me.
another thing: i tried both nats.. new and old with good stats. so i can say new nats is even better some times. and yes i consider using it in some duels, too!
the problem with u is: u did not try old nats! and u actually can tell NOTHING about playing with it but u keep saying there is advantage here is advantate in some matchups.
how can u do that if u dont even play it? its hard enough to kill high ehp barb with low dmg u just never tried it.

another thing: barbs on YOUR GEAR LEVEL should be easy enough to deal with.
if u want to duel the top barbs get high end eq and stop saying u cant win without legacy nats if u dont have this endgame eq the barbs use...

u cant win vs overgeared champs if u self are not.

and yes i have 2 duels in d3cl but i dueleD ALOT alot more ppl before registering here, also some guys that already dueled here.

[Mr.Mag]

Let me suggest something:
    - After season 1 ends, stop official league for short period and start Test league with the new rulz.
    - See what is going on and take good feedback.

Gl

it seems that we resign from the tournament for the best players and do test as a league as you have written above. we plan to do it for 5 days and signups will be for everyone, not only top 32.

[GREEN2172]

@franq: again you didnt readed closely: I have old nat from +- half of the league, but the cheapest on AH. Yesterday I bought cheap old nat, for 60-70kk, and for the fuck sake stop talking it didnt give and advantage - last time with my better new nat Uzjel (legacy nat) won with me in training match maybe 20:4, yesterday with shitty old nat it was something like 15:15.

Specially for you I will make a movie on weekend how is easy to kill non-legacy nat with legacy nat, because it's pathetic how you trying to prove that it is different than it is.

[franq]

No, its Pathetic how you Act. Its made an Decission about This Rule Anyway Which was THe right One so nevermind. Most ppl reading this know u r wrong. U can do Ur Video but it will Proof nothing because it is YOUR playstyle and skill...  Other ppl Play other styles.. And sometimes u win and sometimes u lose. i can duel u with new and old nats and maybe u win when i use old and u lose va new... that can always happen aAnd The Top dhs in this League already said new nats can be superior.
Just let everYOne use what he wants to.
BTW: New nats with Good stats is Even more expansive Then Old nats with Good stats! Old nats only THe Helm is Really extensive! New nats all over Worth much more! Ofc Not such as u use... Like i Said u Must duel ppl with Same value of items! That to u Saying ppl get forced to buy Old nats..

[GREEN2172]

Sorry for my emotional response this morning, I just woke up^^
I know after jointit posts that they will not do anything with DH rules, the only problem here is that you persuade me that I'm wrong without giving examples and evidence. As I said before: show me good DH with new natalya killing good barb in league (could be fight with Devil or Vimer) and this gonna be end of our discussion. Atm only legacy DH can take some frags in this matchup or win - for example Lilith or Pred (always 5:2-5:3 or win) and any non-legacy DH who can win with good barb.
All legacy DH here don't want to admit that it gives an advantage, but on other forum: http://eu.battle.net/d3/pl/forum/topic/6690280438?page=5 you can read Lilith post, in english it says:
"(...) from the moment they [Blizz] said about new natalya set I was firmly convinced that the old set will give a significant advantage in pvp and then I began to slowly gather items".

Evidence, arguments, movies, no panic defense of your opinion or it will be EOT for me.

[franq]

yesterday i watched mannercookies stream and he dueled a really well geared legacy dh that did not kill him 1 time! he had no chance because he had too low dmg.

couple days agoa new nats user won vs mannercookie in long duels.
as u can see there are many ways you can see it and i think its not enough duels and players so far to say something is op or not.

[franq]

just dueled GREEN2172

and he won more matches then i did... and both of us used legacy nats... my gear is much better but he killed me more often.. that shows skill and timing in dh vs dh is much more important then items.
he has just alot more practice in dh mirrormatches and wins with items much lower then i have.

i think in dh vs dh it matters much about skill and timings and not much about items.
new nats have less discregen but with and discpool over 70 and prep u should not run out of disc + u can tank more dmg so maybe tank 1 impale or sth... that needs 2 skillshots to kill u then.

not sure about it. i think green recorded the stuff and will maybe upload also if it does not show much

[Nightmare]

@franq I thought the point Green was trying to make was that Old Nats > New Nats despite skill level?

If so then now you two have determined who is more skilled at the mirror DH match you should duel him with Legacy and him using the new Nats. If he still wins then it's not about new or old, skill trumps all. If you win significantly more now that he's switched to new Nats then the Legacy set oviously provides a significant advantage.

[ricebowl]

Let me know when you actually lose a duel to the 80% dodge or w/e monk instead of losing in your head.

PS: He has 0 spirit regen and 350 resist all.

[GREEN2172]

@franq I thought the point Green was trying to make was that Old Nats > New Nats despite skill level?

If so then now you two have determined who is more skilled at the mirror DH match you should duel him with Legacy and him using the new Nats. If he still wins then it's not about new or old, skill trumps all. If you win significantly more now that he's switched to new Nats then the Legacy set oviously provides a significant advantage.

I will post movie later, franq was fightning in legacy set, because he didn't want to wear new set. I was fightning later with McP with his good new nat and it was aligned fight - I losed but I scored some points, with my new nat I always losed with McP 0-5, with shitty legacy it was something like 8-12, but this works only if he use strafe build (I mean if he use normal impale build I winned, but with strafe build and with my shitty legacy i have 58k hp and 300-400 ress) and PROBABLY legacy DH with better set (more EHP) will win anyway.
On the end I was fightning with Captain, with his end game new set, and I must say that this guy is so fuckin skilled - he even didn't need to use strafe, he aim very well from impale. It was maybe 2-7 or 2-8, but again: with shitty legacy set I scored some points, and with my new nat (worth 3x more then my legacy set) I always losed 0:5.

Conclusion:
shitty legacy set >> shitty new set
shitty legacy set > average new set
shitty legacy set = good new set
shitty legacy set < end game new set.
average/good legacy set(Lilith set) = end game new set (from scores from Lilith fights with Captain and McP)
end game legacy set (who have one? I will buy:D) > end game new set (probably).

[GREEN2172]

0->6:44 franq, 6:45->end McP

[Euronymous]

Thanks for the video, great news for DH. You can save money and buy a cheap legacy nats instead of your overpriced new nats and let the individual skill decide the match.

[GREEN2172]

Thanks for the video, great news for DH. You can save money and buy a cheap legacy nats instead of your overpriced new nats and let the individual skill decide the match.

Not that great news - it gonna be more and more ppl who want to play PvP, and when I bought this set it was only 2 not full pages on AH with helmet with socket, so it will just end soon. Legacy nat rings with cd or cc are 1-2 units on AH, armors with +10 dyscy too. If we don't make different rules now we will have to do it in future, because many of new DH players in league gonna see that legacy nat is "Must have" and they will write here as I wrote before 1.2.5 rules.

[Lilith]

Thanks for the video, great news for DH. You can save money and buy a cheap legacy nats instead of your overpriced new nats and let the individual skill decide the match.

Not that great news - it gonna be more and more ppl who want to play PvP, and when I bought this set it was only 2 not full pages on AH with helmet with socket, so it will just end soon. Legacy nat rings with cd or cc are 1-2 units on AH, armors with +10 dyscy too. If we don't make different rules now we will have to do it in future, because many of new DH players in league gonna see that legacy nat is "Must have" and they will write here as I wrote before 1.2.5 rules.

Try to kill emmet with legacy:) I'm losing with him all the time^^