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[franq]

Thanks for the video, great news for DH. You can save money and buy a cheap legacy nats instead of your overpriced new nats and let the individual skill decide the match.

Not that great news - it gonna be more and more ppl who want to play PvP, and when I bought this set it was only 2 not full pages on AH with helmet with socket, so it will just end soon. Legacy nat rings with cd or cc are 1-2 units on AH, armors with +10 dyscy too. If we don't make different rules now we will have to do it in future, because many of new DH players in league gonna see that legacy nat is "Must have" and they will write here as I wrote before 1.2.5 rules.

your test actually say not much in my opinion. but nvm.
you can never say just from 1 or 2 duels that a specific set is superior to the other set.
like i said it needs MONTHS of testing in usual league to see if legacy or non legacy users are in front! not just some duels of someone that DOES WANT LEGACY to be banned.
not like testing some duel with shitty old and shitty new nats vs different players....

THAT IS SNAPSHOT OF DAYSKILL, thats it. we all know u cant afford good old nats or good new nats and thats why u want to ban one opinion of it so u maybe someday can get a good set of one of it.

and btw: old nats with cc = only LOW LOW LOW more dmg then without cc on helmet. so u cant say really old nats bad is much worse then old nats good.  stats cannot varie alot in old nats set.... 4cc = maybe 14kdmg with ur items, thats not gamechanging!
 and there is only 1 ring in eu with cc + cd.... rest have either cd or cc not both.
 
there will be no rule for old and new nats because u still cannot force any1 to buy different items to play in the league.
ppl that have new play new, ppl that have old play old. old nats players arent forced to buy new one.
new nats players arent forced to buy old one... AND NO THEY ARE NOT FORCED BECAUSE ITS BETTER only because u feel it is!

[IMP-Executioner]

- maybe the Warcry-ban should be specified only for shield-barbs?
- if you use shield/tank setup you can compensate the nerf but all 2-hander setups are broken because you kill the defensive potential directly

[Nightmare]

That 100% dodge monk happens to be in the US league! If we impose a ban on chemical burn, I would like to impose a limit to dodge chance vs DH to not exceed 70% or another reasonable number (this can be calculated before the match based on Dexterity and skills).

I was looking at your gear and mystical's gear because you two seem like the top US DHs in US server but did you know your Manticore is a duped item? Shows there's over 15 players with the same one on diabloprogress. Buying duped items is lame and spits in the face of people who legitly bought their items. You shouldn't even be able to duel with that Manticore. You're supporting something that is ruining the game. sell it bro.

http://www.diabloprogress.com/item/26229266

There's no way you don't know that it's duped. If you didn't know it when u bought it then you know now. Even Mannercookie immediately sold an item he bought when he found out it was a duped it. Duping is messing this game up.

[Iria]

They should stop the dupers. It is not the fault of the AH buyer that an item is duped. I paid good money for it, $200.00 USD Battlenet currency (I sold a lot of items to earn it). I don't see how this is the fault of the current owner and not the person who actively cheated to dupe the item.

[KNHO]

@ Nightmare
Why the fuck you come up with such trash issues in this topic? Who cares?
You want to be the item and anti-dupe officer for d3cl?
Instead of trying to shit on someone, go and do something usefull for school.

[Nightmare]

@ Nightmare
Why the fuck you come up with such trash issues in this topic? Who cares?
You want to be the item and anti-dupe officer for d3cl?
Instead of trying to shit on someone, go and do something usefull for school.

HAHAHA do you not know how to spell useful? GO TO SCHOOL. Shut the fuck up and get educated.

[predsr]

Now now children

[RadL]

- maybe the Warcry-ban should be specified only for shield-barbs?
- if you use shield/tank setup you can compensate the nerf but all 2-hander setups are broken because you kill the defensive potential directly

+1 for sure, but I don't know if a 2-hander build was ever viable in dh vs barb.
Other than that, as some people mentioned before hex cant stay against barbs. Barbs are perma sheep and the only way to cancel it is WOTB. Thats why many of us used WOTB in the first place, and hex is what ruins this match up. I am not afraid that it will stay this way because it is such a nonsense, but man can I trust the rest of the restrictions after this?

[GREEN2172]

only because u feel it is!

...or maybe other new nat users are smarter then me and don't want to argue with legacy nat players?
Take today your new set and fight with me, you will feel the same way like me, after that take your new set and fight with some barb from top20, come here and post results - as you said new nat is not worse so it will be not a problem?

Atm this is just an academic discussion, because, as the judges have posted this problem will not be solved this season.

[IMP-Executioner]

@ radlob, i play 2 hand vs dh or at least i found a way to do so... worked very well vs predsr, lilith, emmett, captain and mcp and will never work again without warcry.

If you ban warcry i will use my tankgear + overpower. Defensive shout i use always vs dh so its not done to swich warcry with that.

And 1 thing i have also to say about gear... at the moment i´m crafting all my freetime to get my 230 k life gear only to stand against Sin, Duri and Thomas and sometimes Kaios Onehitarchonoverkill. A whole new setup just against 4 Players that can deliver 25 mio dmg in 15 sec. I´m working on a specific gear vs each variation of the different builds on each class. So dont come up with "legacy or not DH discussion" You have to have both setups anyway to be as flexible as u have to be. To say i need other rules i am legacy player is a bit too easy or not?

If you think Tank barbs are overpowered specify your wished not just banning something...
You can cap values on runspeed, ehp, lifereg but banning skills is not the solution.
Even wotb is not overpowered just the 100% DPS rune is worth kiting 2 min to w8 for. I wish i could still use my Wotb + 60% dodge rune vs sin and to get out of the fucking hex - but cant any more

[KNHO]

Nofear is for sure one of the best barbs vs DH in this league. Notice this guy is still undergeared when you look @ other top barbs. I bought a "OK" legacy set for testing and still have not much chances against him.
Why i write this? My opinion is, that you got to play very very smart with both sets against good barbs.
- Legacy gives you more defense/time (disc), less dmg/life, and allows to do a mistake .
- New nats gives you more dmg/life, but allows no mistakes, because life doesn´t realy count here, coz if you´re out of disc, you are death. As a new nats user, you kill the barb fast if you do insane pressure and aim like god, or you die.

So the point is, if you´re a machine that don´t make mistakes and doesn´t miss impales at all = New nats is very good! For normal humans it´s not the best in my eyes. My conclusion after few days testing is that the legacy Set is far the best choice vs WD and Barb. In all other setups, New nats is even.

[Euronymous]

They should stop the dupers. It is not the fault of the AH buyer that an item is duped. I paid good money for it, $200.00 USD Battlenet currency (I sold a lot of items to earn it). I don't see how this is the fault of the current owner and not the person who actively cheated to dupe the item.

Dupes give players an unfair advantage over players that don't use dupes.
Right now duping isn't that big of a problem, especially for pvp items. But more and more best-in-slot pvp items are bound to get duped. This forces players that want to be competitive to either buy the dupes or pay a large premium for legit items that offer no advantage at all and are often worse than the dupes.
Dupes also affect the pvp balance a lot, it just takes a perfect duped BT set for barbarians or an insane spear to shift the powers between classes. The classes with the best dupes can get endgame items at midlevel prices where other classes might not get endgame items at all.
In the end, everyone will depend on dupers and eventually use the same duped items. Dupers would love that for sure, a competitive scene that buys all the nice best-in-slot dupes they put out

Sure, it will be annoying to change your duped manticores to legit manticores, but it's for the sake of the league. You still indirectly profit from all the dupe manticores because they drive down the prices of legit manticores.

[Iria]

I don't know how this topic derailed from PVP balance discussion to a duped item thread. I will state again: I purchased my Manticore with hard earned money; I can post a screenshot of the RMAH transaction if needed to prove that I did not dupe this item. Furthermore, the price of an item should be irrelevant to this discussion of PVP balance, if you cannot afford something, duped or not, then that is your problem, not the league's problem. It is absurd to change a lot of players' equipment "for the sake of the league". If you want to buy me a Manticore which provides me equal or greater DPS, I will gladly trade mine in exchange. Lastly, I wholeheartedly disagree with your "dupes also affect the pvp balance a lot"; I see no grounds for this.

Now, to return to the actual topic, I have been seeing more discussion of legacy nats vs non-legacy nats in various threads and I would like to comment again on my opinion. I am one of the few successful non-legacy nat DH in the US league and I think the new set is fine in terms of balance. I have played the same players that MysticaL has and I never felt my matches were utterly hopeless. With regards to non-legacy vs legacy; at the top level of gear (around where MysticaL and I are), I think the legacy set does provide an advantage in that the legacy DH can simply force the non-legacy DH to waste discipline by excessively using smokescreen. This is the only match-up I currently feel is almost hopeless (I require more luck than anything to win).

[Spirals]

2 things:
1/ Natalya's legacy discussion can be held in the discussion thread.
2/ Dupes are not a part of ruleversion 1.2.5.  Any such accusations don't belong here nor the discussion about them. If you want to adress this issue open a new topic.

It ends here; back to 1.2.5

[Leraye]

thoes rules are the most idiotic thing that have happend to pvp rules ever. you are banning everyone exept a wizzard that is a very good character that lose only a bit because dh's got preparation vs his unstable anomaly, barbs can tank their horrible storm armor dmg, wd's got minions to dodge his killing attacks. with this changes you have just buffed kaio hard. he will lose with dh's that will 2shot him.

oh and btw you made monk immortal vs a dh. chemical burn is the only skill that does some dmg to that guy. every other attack can be easly dodge with 3300 dex and a bit of mantra. monks can oneshot dh's if they are not in ss mode.

having that in mind happy duels with the new rules.