Diablo 3 Clan League - PvP forum

D3CL Community boards => Community information and announcements => Topic started by: Mr.Mag on April 27, 2013, 09:19:36 am

Title: PTR League start (2013-04-27)
Post by: Mr.Mag on April 27, 2013, 09:19:36 am
PTR League sign up will start today at 21:00 CET. League will run tomorrow.
Title: Re: PTR League start (2013-04-27)
Post by: N0F3aR on April 27, 2013, 11:47:12 am
Great,
Any rullz?
Title: Re: PTR League start (2013-04-27)
Post by: Forti on April 27, 2013, 12:40:41 pm
Ye what rylez will we have? The last one, right?

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Title: Re: PTR League start (2013-04-27)
Post by: ximae on April 28, 2013, 08:40:52 am
cant signup to the league!
Title: Re: PTR League start (2013-04-27)
Post by: Mr.Mag on April 28, 2013, 09:19:52 am
even now?
Title: Re: PTR League start (2013-04-27)
Post by: ximae on April 28, 2013, 10:14:46 am
fixed!

now waiting for more people to join XD
Title: Re: PTR League start (2013-04-27)
Post by: DarkRaven on April 28, 2013, 11:16:47 am
what are the rules?

cause if they are the ones from test league, it's pretty bad, at least for barbs.

wds were already impossible now they have  buffed regen and buffed bats dps

banning warcry vs wizards with buffed RoF and  CM build is pretty silly

banning warcry vs dh already showed that barbs are fury starved and it encourages more stalemates and hiding to regen.
my proposition is to allow WC vs dh but only with fury gain rune, and ban relentless and maybe also nerves.
Title: Re: PTR League start (2013-04-27)
Post by: ximae on April 28, 2013, 11:56:15 am
in my wizs point of view i agree warcry should be allowed vs wiz as we got oue damage buffed.

and wd vs wiz is still pretty imbalanced any ideas on what to add there?

 the new bats are so op that just like a sec exposure to them will kill u. id say that if u use bats u cant use any form of cc skill coz its just silly getting ccd and then just trashed with a single click of the bats.
Title: Re: PTR League start (2013-04-27)
Post by: Mr.Mag on April 28, 2013, 12:33:26 pm
rules should be posted today, before league start for sure
Title: Re: PTR League start (2013-04-27)
Post by: N0F3aR on April 28, 2013, 17:44:51 pm
I am using WotB against wizards.
Title: Re: PTR League start (2013-04-27)
Post by: ximae on April 28, 2013, 19:09:12 pm
I am using WotB against wizards.

u mean in non d3cl duels right? coz if rules specify no wotb ill gladly leave game and take the walkover coz it doesnt seem ur interested in balancing this crap out.
Title: Re: PTR League start (2013-04-27)
Post by: KNHO on April 28, 2013, 19:49:39 pm
WD vs DH is also very heavy unbalanced.
Impossible to kill a good WD as DH, it´s just frustrating.
Title: Re: PTR League start (2013-04-27)
Post by: N0F3aR on April 28, 2013, 20:47:50 pm
ximae, dont talk, OK? With buffed ray of frost/teleport and non stop frost nova + stun + mirrors you dont have the right for asking ban WotB.
Also against dh the only rulz that could be goos is -"barb can choise 1 but not both from the skills "War cry" and "Shout"
Everything else gives advantage to dh.
!!! And something important. Last time i played PTR IP was nurfed 2% on paper, but only on paper. In game i was healing 4% from my life, so this may be not fixed yet.
As to WD, yeah, this class is now Insane. No matter barb,dh or other hero. WD has the same life regen as barb and more dmg done compared to dh- another clever move from blizzard. I am not sure how wd could be balanced. I am really against banning any skill.
As to barb vs wizard again - WotB is 15 sec. Only 15 sec, and wizard has buffed escape ability.
Title: Re: PTR League start (2013-04-27)
Post by: ximae on April 28, 2013, 21:02:48 pm
yes i do ask for a ban to wotb coz wiz has a big disadvantage in mobility and that 16 sec cooldwon in tp means a barb will be able to get to the wiz in no time sprinting.

 now imagine the following scenario, barb goes 2h hota activates wotb and just chases the wiz down and just smashes him down in 2-3 hotas without the wiz being able to do anything as he cant escape, tp will just buy him 3-5 secs, and he cant cc the barb to stay alive.

so tell me what do u do against that coz yeah rof dmg maybe buffed but not that much that u can kill a barb before he hotas u 2-3 times.
Title: Re: PTR League start (2013-04-27)
Post by: ximae on April 28, 2013, 21:06:49 pm
I do agree with wd though, theyre insane right now something needs to be done about that coz every class is just crap vs them.
Title: Re: PTR League start (2013-04-27)
Post by: DarkRaven on April 28, 2013, 21:07:51 pm
I consider wotb a bit too much but it's worth testing.

after all barbs have been using it vs wd for a long time and good wd had no problem running away from it, around corners.

 with teleport wormhole it may be useless for barbs to even use wotb and waste a slot which could be the ehp skill  that helps them survive RoF.

@ximae, in wotb insanity with 2h is not 2-3 hotas, 1 crit can easily do 1-2 mil damage... or 1 crit rend
Title: Re: PTR League start (2013-04-27)
Post by: ximae on April 28, 2013, 21:29:27 pm
dak raven, even worse then!

 how much ehp do u think we have to be able to have the dps to take high ehp barbs down? were talking about the 600-700k ehp range. So its gona be 2 shots, one to activate unstable anomaly and another to finish u off.

Im saying this coz i have faced it in ffa pubs, pricks who would just enter chappel when wotb is ready activate it and just mow everyone down in a couple 2h hotas... nothing u can do about it as a wiz.

So if u really are intent on testing wotb then ban 2h with it as any rend/hota crit will just crush u and u can just persue till u get ur crits off.
Title: Re: PTR League start (2013-04-27)
Post by: N0F3aR on April 28, 2013, 23:41:51 pm
When i speak about using WotB, i didnt ment using 2 handed weapon. Ok, i agree - WotB but no 2 handed like skorn/mace.
Title: Re: PTR League start (2013-04-27)
Post by: ximae on April 29, 2013, 01:43:56 am
sure we could test that, hit me up if u guys want to do that.
Title: Re: PTR League start (2013-04-27)
Post by: Mr.Mag on April 29, 2013, 08:16:44 am
we have to wait for inspire presence fix t ostart the league. blizz did not fix it.
Title: Re: PTR League start (2013-04-27)
Post by: Shadow88 on April 29, 2013, 09:24:56 am
main problem with wotb is the huge dmg increase. wiz has to go rather low ehp to be able to do enough dmg vs barbs. but from wotb we die from only 1 rend hit.. and 15 seconds are realy really long. we can teleport away 1 time. but thats not enough because of the runspeed. have tried it several times with nofear. result was that i lost every round without a chance when he switched to wotb. could not escape even once. if you think about activating wotb right from the start of the duel you can just chase down any wiz. and i really dont like the idea of switching to some kind of a chicken build.

have you considered wotb without any rune?
Title: Re: PTR League start (2013-04-27)
Post by: Forti on April 29, 2013, 09:45:33 am
Blizzard is joking i See.

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Title: Re: PTR League start (2013-04-27)
Post by: DarkRaven on April 29, 2013, 10:02:09 am
we will test on ptr after insp presence is fixed I think barbs can have an ok build even without wotb

@nofear, try hota instead of rend, it's much better, it hits hard even with spear and shield, the wizards are pretty glass cannon vs barbs.

with hota I prefer marauder rage instead of threatening because they get rid of threatening easily with mirror

my current build vs wiz is:

hota smash

sprint

marauder rage

ignore pain

charge dreadnought  (even 8% hp every 10 sec is pretty good, sometimes 16 or 24 if u hit the mirror images)

warcry impunity or veteran warning (dodge gives more theoretical ehp but all res is more reliable)

inspiring

relentless or nerves

superstition
Title: Re: PTR League start (2013-04-27)
Post by: MoKKaL on April 29, 2013, 10:33:35 am
as mentioned above several times:

.) wizz NEEDS to go glass cannon, to even be able to kill the barb
.) therefore 2 hotas just kill the ~800k ehp wizz
.) therefore --> 1 or 2 mistakes from the wizz means, he just lost :)
.) killing the barb still takes more than enough time - sure, a barbs shouldnt do too many mistakes either - bust still has more room for mistakes
.) hota >>> rend in that case
.) wotb would get the pretty okish balanced match (hota!) to a 100/0 barb/wizz ratio.

imo ... wizz vs barbs --> just ban WOTB
so barbs should be able to even use (dual)stun build aswell

my 2c :)
Title: Re: PTR League start (2013-04-27)
Post by: Forti on April 29, 2013, 10:47:34 am
The otrzymał league want start imo. There is a small chance 1.0.8 gonna live on thuesday.

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Title: Re: PTR League start (2013-04-27)
Post by: ximae on April 29, 2013, 11:34:51 am
.) hota >>> rend in that case

specially considering we mostly gear towards taking critless rends via decent mit + lreg and just worrying about crits = mi time.


imo ... wizz vs barbs --> just ban WOTB
so barbs should be able to even use (dual)stun build aswell

my 2c :)

mine aswell.
Title: Re: PTR League start (2013-04-27)
Post by: DarkRaven on April 29, 2013, 13:15:40 pm
barbs should have a normal cc breaker not a 2 min cd monster buff

for ex a rune on ignore pain which gave immunity to cc for 5 sec, maybe even lowering the mitigation from 65 to 50.. it would be so much more balanced, no needs to ban cc skillz or to tank like mad in order to survive stunned for an extended period of time.
Title: Re: PTR League start (2013-04-27)
Post by: dilaVo on April 29, 2013, 15:48:32 pm
try hota instead of rend, it's much better, it hits hard even with spear and shield
Hard enough to counter Ice Armor - Jagged Ice?
Title: Re: PTR League start (2013-04-27)
Post by: DarkRaven on April 29, 2013, 16:06:56 pm
I didn't test vs that, the mitigation is not amazing, 12%, but I don't know what the chance to freeze is. is it 50% to freeze and 50% chance to chill?

wouldn't chilling aura or crystallize rune be better? 130% damage is like a small tickle vs barbs
Title: Re: PTR League start (2013-04-27)
Post by: dilaVo on April 29, 2013, 16:54:50 pm
I didn't test vs that, the mitigation is not amazing, 12%,
yes, most wizard skills are not amazing, but what can we do?

Quote
but I don't know what the chance to freeze is. is it 50% to freeze and 50% chance to chill?
me neither, but I believe this is the way it works

Quote
wouldn't chilling aura or crystallize rune be better?
no, it wouldn't

Quote
130% damage is like a small tickle vs barbs
Obviously, but it still works quite nice if you use Cold Blooded and high raw dmg build with enough ehp to be able to stand still while casting Diamond Skin - Crystal Shell + RoF - Snow Blast / Cold Blood. This skill is quite nice against low dmg melee oponents (just like Storm Armor - Reactive Armor works nice against low dmg ranged oponents ex. tank dh's).

Anyway test it and let us know what you think about it. I see no point in talking about things you didn't use / test / etc. (but maybe that's just me?).
Title: Re: PTR League start (2013-04-27)
Post by: DarkRaven on April 29, 2013, 17:12:46 pm
I think a wiz tried that vs me when I was using clobber, but I might be mistaken.

I'll add u dilavo when I get home, to test it.
Title: Re: PTR League start (2013-04-27)
Post by: dilaVo on April 29, 2013, 17:44:18 pm
I'll add u dilavo when I get home, to test it.
That might be difficult, because I sold my whole PvP set (well only amu left, because it's account bound - it's on my wd). I'm waiting for 1.1 (PvP patch) and then I will decide if it's worth buying pvp gear or not. Test it with wizards against whom you usually fight. I'm sure you have some on your friend list otherwise you wouldn't talk about barb vs wiz duels.
Title: Re: PTR League start (2013-04-27)
Post by: Forti on April 29, 2013, 18:48:15 pm
SO.. I wont play 6-10 months.

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Title: Re: PTR League start (2013-04-27)
Post by: ximae on April 29, 2013, 18:55:57 pm

Quote
wouldn't chilling aura or crystallize rune be better?
no, it wouldn't

Quote
130% damage is like a small tickle vs barbs
Obviously, but it still works quite nice if you use Cold Blooded and high raw dmg build with enough ehp to be able to stand still while casting Diamond Skin - Crystal Shell + RoF - Snow Blast / Cold Blood. This skill is quite nice against low dmg melee oponents (just like Storm Armor - Reactive Armor works nice against low dmg ranged oponents ex. tank dh's).

Anyway test it and let us know what you think about it. I see no point in talking about things you didn't use / test / etc. (but maybe that's just me?).

I actually tested this quickly with hola last week, when mokkal said it was the most balanced with hota.

 It is nice, but a wash over storm armour so it doesnt have me sold, probably need more testing though. U actually loose more dps than i though removing sa in trade for better survivability but the nicest part is the free freeze u get when he hits u, but the chance is lowish id say around 15% and the chill just overlaps with rof anyways.

as for the runes i tried:

  jagged ice was a nono coz its damage is pathetic vs barbs, unlike vs monks coz it also seems undodgable, so it trades very badly as hota still hurts a ton so u wont be wanting to get hit, if u want the dps just stick to storm armour.

  cristalize seemed the better option as at least the dps tradeoff was for a good mitigation buff the bad part is that u dont get the full benefit till the third hit so ur pretty low on health already.
Title: Re: PTR League start (2013-04-27)
Post by: dilaVo on April 29, 2013, 19:18:31 pm
jagged ice was a nono coz its damage is pathetic vs barbs [...]  if u want the dps just stick to storm armour
The dmg is exactly the same as dmg from Storm armor - Thunder Storm, but with Ice Armor - Jagged Ice you always benefit from Cold Blooded. Maybe you were dueling a barb that had a lot of cold res + ice climbers and that is why you had the feeling that you are actually doing more dmg with Storm Armor?

Quote
so it trades very badly as hota still hurts a ton so u wont be wanting to get hit
Like I said, this armor works only against low dmg melee builds. If a barb is using 2-hander you won't be able to stand still (obviously), but if he is using ex. spear + shield you should be able to nuke him before he kills you with HotA.
Title: Re: PTR League start (2013-04-27)
Post by: ximae on April 29, 2013, 19:57:25 pm
dilavo, sa also deals little damage to barbs, at least in my rof setup since i have smaller av damage, a lot of ias and lower cd compared to skorn. The problem is the frequency at which it hits, sa hits once per second jagged ice hits when they hit u. So jagged ice would benefit far more from high ias barb slapping u than a big pounding hammer in ur head.

 The real problem is the way it hits, u need to trade to get benefit from jagged ice and the damage ur taking compared to what he is taking does not benefit you. if u want to use it as a dps skill u are much better off kiting and dodging his attacks so u take 0 damage  and let sa hit him once per second, u not taking damage and him taking it is a much better trade off imho.

btw: he was using 1h + shield not 2h. 1h + shield hota still hits pretty hard, pretty much harder than ur jagged ice hits him.
Title: Re: PTR League start (2013-04-27)
Post by: dilaVo on April 29, 2013, 20:24:18 pm
sa hits once per second jagged ice hits when they hit u.
well not exactly once per second, but on average once per second

Quote
btw: he was using 1h + shield not 2h. 1h + shield hota still hits pretty hard, pretty much harder than ur jagged ice hits him.
I see. If it's not a problem I would like to borrow (on PTR) your skorn setup. The one you had when we were playing in mirror league (94%+ dmg reduction). I would like to test it myself. Maybe those HotA barbs against whom I fought weren't good enough.
Title: Re: PTR League start (2013-04-27)
Post by: ximae on April 29, 2013, 20:40:46 pm
well it was 94% accounting for pvps 30% dr and the 6% ranged in bt coat that wouldnt apply to hota. but i stopped using that vs barbs coz it just lacked the dps to kill the better ones as id endup running out of ap even at 1.0 aps.

but sure i can let u have it in ptr as i can just recopy it in a couple days.... but only if we play some practice games before :p

i was thinking if the current wiz v wiz build might be outdated with the new buffs and want to test it.
Title: Re: PTR League start (2013-04-27)
Post by: MoKKaL on April 29, 2013, 21:03:34 pm
i tested jagged ice against darkraven on ptr ... and it sucked :)
u will loose too much damage!
Title: Re: PTR League start (2013-04-27)
Post by: DarkRaven on April 29, 2013, 21:06:32 pm
I tested vs mokkal on ptr.

ice armor was a too big dps loss, even if it stunned me a couple of times it was after he got a big hota in the head.

hota shots vs a good cm wiz are a lot less than 1 per sec. storm armor is needed for the dps.

overall our games felt balanced any mistake is quickly punished, I think that in the final score he had an advantage.

BUT this was with 4% regen from ptr inspiring presence.

also, I used marauder rage, maybe threatening shout would be better vs the new RoF and to get away when low.

overall mokkal had 27% dodge which I think is very big vs hota. I needed a lot more hota shots to kill him, compared to shadow on live server, although I think he has less ehp than shadow.

it felt very helpless from my point of view, it relied so much on his luck on resetting cds, with a good combo he got me very low before I could do anything.

it's a lot more annoying and frustrating than playing vs hex and gargantuan, where u can at least avoid them with good movement.

with only 2% regen from insp presence it may be required to nerf something. either cm or one of the stuns, but I can't speak for all barbs... others that tested should share their experience.
Title: Re: PTR League start (2013-04-27)
Post by: dilaVo on April 29, 2013, 21:10:52 pm
but sure i can let u have it in ptr as i can just recopy it in a couple days
yeah, exactly

Quote
but only if we play some practice games before :p
sure, gladly

EDIT: I played against DarkRaven on PTR today. I tried EHP setup with 202k DPS buffed (Magic weapon - Force weapon, no % elite dmg) with three different types of armor: Ice armor - Jagged ice, Storm armor - Thunder storm, Storm armor - Shocking aspect. I was able to survive a couple of his HotA's (with Diamond skin - Crystal shell and Blur instead of Unstable anomaly), but I wasn't doing enough dmg to kill him. In fact I wasn't able to kill him even when he was standing still and casting only Threatening shout. During the test I was attacking with RoF - Cold blood and SA - Thunder storm. I didn't use debuff (Mirror images) and DarkRaven didn't use potions and Ignore pain. Maybe RoF - Snow blast would make a difference here, but I highly doubt that. Anyway I'm not sure what is the minimum DPS required to kill a barb with this amount of EHP.
Title: Re: PTR League start (2013-04-27)
Post by: N0F3aR on May 06, 2013, 22:12:33 pm
Is this going to start. Or maybe next season?
Title: Re: PTR League start (2013-04-27)
Post by: Forti on May 06, 2013, 22:46:25 pm
I hope for next seazon @ 1.0.8 alive. Even without rulez like seazon first was.
Title: Re: PTR League start (2013-04-27)
Post by: Mr.Mag on May 07, 2013, 09:21:55 am
bug is probably still not fixed so it looks like we're going to start next season on live server. i'm not sure if "league style" competition is a good idea in summer time so we'll probably switch to 1-2 days tournaments for 2-3 months. expect some info soon.
Title: Re: PTR League start (2013-04-27)
Post by: DarkRaven on May 07, 2013, 13:31:17 pm
why not have league seasons that last a couple of months, even with imperfect rules, or rules changing over the course of a season, AND also some weekend tournaments for those who want more.

based on the league standings you could also organize tournaments for different categories of players so that more players have a chance to win



Title: Re: PTR League start (2013-04-27)
Post by: ximae on May 07, 2013, 13:46:05 pm
yeah i agree with dark raven. we could do a league that lasts a couple months, till july for example and also do some weekend tourneys.
Title: Re: PTR League start (2013-04-27)
Post by: Mr.Mag on May 07, 2013, 14:08:26 pm
if we want to run a league for a couple of months we have to constantly remove inactive players from it to avoid a lot of walkovers
Title: Re: PTR League start (2013-04-27)
Post by: Forti on May 07, 2013, 16:32:13 pm
so do this... more judges and just say "yes, we can!". This will be nice.

Also tell my anyone, how much point can get top1 after a few months? 3000?
Title: Re: PTR League start (2013-04-27)
Post by: ximae on May 07, 2013, 21:24:46 pm
ehm might as well cancel the ptr league already as 1.08 has just gone live in us and will here tonight.

on the otherhand i dont see a problem removing inactive players... or just not even doing so, in all the rest of leagues layed there were always inactive players around, as long as u can cancel challenges i dont see the problem. Just base giving the walkthrough on the player being active or not.... no duels or logging in just cancel the challenge... playing other duels and dodging some, give the walkover on those.
Title: Re: PTR League start (2013-04-27)
Post by: Mr.Mag on May 08, 2013, 08:35:05 am
i'll make some changes in the league system to remove inactive players after some walkovers.
Title: Re: PTR League start (2013-04-27)
Post by: Forti on May 08, 2013, 09:52:31 am
yes, let say - 5 w/o within 1 week = out of league.

Love ya!