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[KNHO]

I got the new Nat Set, and i am fighting a lot of Barbarians. If you look @ my profile, i got not the absolutely top gear, but it´s still far away from average. Im sure that i am not as good as Lilith or Mysticalz @ the moment, and i got to practice a lot more....but, i only can agree with Green here.

The duels vs Barbs (Painsup, Sprint, Rend, Chicken, Regenerate) <--- Standart style nowadays, is just making me mad.
When i hit them hard, they just sprint away and regenerate, i am forced to chase them and waste all my discipline to get a "Maybe" kill, if i can´t kill him...he just fucks me up, coz im out of disci. Ofcourse i just can say "Fuck you", i don´t chase you, but then he will everytime come out back behind the walls with full hp, and the game starts again. The duel lasts so long, till he lands 2 lucky rends, for the cost of all my 158 discipline = Dead.Dead. I would very appreciate if the experienced non legacy DH´s give me information ( How to) about their dominating vs Barbarians, i am allways willing to learn.

[GREEN2172]

I would very appreciate if the experienced non legacy DH´s give me information ( How to) about their dominating vs Barbarians, i am allways willing to learn.

I think only Captain win some matches with good barbs with new nat, but im not sure if he didnt have old nat for barbs duels.

[KNHO]

If you look @Captains statistics, he lost the most of the last vs Barb duels.
And captain, is absolutely highend geared. His dmg ist just retarded.

[Ryba]

But really, in comparsion to new set, about ~25-35% life and ~30% damage loss isn't that op.
If somebody want to figure out, PM Me bt, I will show the difference.
For me banning this set doesn't make sense..

Ye, it's funny that legacy nat users says "it's not so good", "we are losing 30% life and 30% dmg", "banning it is senseless" so pls tell me:
WHY the hell you are using it? If it DON'T give an advantage in fight you all will be using new nat, not legacy set.
This is only bullshit, so pls stop and say the truth: you had luck to buy good legacy set a few months ago and new players are unable to buy equal set, so we must run with new nat or bad legacy nat from AH, and we are affected in rules by legacy nat users because barbs&wd cry that with new rules they will not have chance with DH with legacy nat.

If new nat is better you all will use it, and you use legacy nat so stop talking how much life and dps you losing;]

Why?
Cause i'm in possession of this set since 03 (only improved shoes). Unfortunately prices of legacy nat are still going down. I'm 88 paragon lvl at this moment, so it make quicker farm than new nat.
Have got several expenses before buying new nat set, so maybe @ 100 paragon I will set legacy and buy new one /eventually buy new one w/o selling old/. Btw, it should not be your business why i'm using it. I still dont think that legacy have THAT advantage in pvp.
Its rather obvious that the people who use legacy nat will be against banning it.
You probably got big whips from some 03 nat dh, and thats why you're mad right now =]
Try to farm some gold, and check legacy prices - they aren't that expensive!

And above all im feeling fakin unique using it and like ninja style (still loosing 30% life and 30% dps).

[Lilith]

I got the new Nat Set, and i am fighting a lot of Barbarians. If you look @ my profile, i got not the absolutely top gear, but it´s still far away from average. Im sure that i am not as good as Lilith or Mysticalz @ the moment, and i got to practice a lot more....but, i only can agree with Green here.

The duels vs Barbs (Painsup, Sprint, Rend, Chicken, Regenerate) <--- Standart style nowadays, is just making me mad.
When i hit them hard, they just sprint away and regenerate, i am forced to chase them and waste all my discipline to get a "Maybe" kill, if i can´t kill him...he just fucks me up, coz im out of disci. Ofcourse i just can say "Fuck you", i don´t chase you, but then he will everytime come out back behind the walls with full hp, and the game starts again. The duel lasts so long, till he lands 2 lucky rends, for the cost of all my 158 discipline = Dead.Dead. I would very appreciate if the experienced non legacy DH´s give me information ( How to) about their dominating vs Barbarians, i am allways willing to learn.

I'm legacy nat user but u can try my build:

Hungering Arrow - Devouring Arrow
Impale - Chemical Burn
Vault - Tumble
Smoke Screen - Lingering Fog
Preparation - Battle Scars
Marked for Death - Mortal Enemy or Fan of Knives - Fan of Daggers

Thrill of the Hunt
Sharpshooter
Tactical Advantage

With this build i can win with every barb, but i feel blood lust when i see them near to death and rush in melee range^^

Tactics

1. 24ms
2. Try to use trill of hunt when charge and jump is on cooldown
3. Run away when he use ignore pain.
4. try to use vault, not  smoke screen most of time.

[Blud]

I think that banning gear is a mistake, and it will cause nothing but rage and trouble. Don't mess with people's choices.

That said, I don't see Legacy nat as a problem. Its a huge EHP loss.

[predsr]

on paper its an big EHP loss, but in reality the main loss is the DPS.  You have shitloads of more disc, which in thoery = EHP, thats the way i look at it anyway

[Blud]

I don't care about a DH's discipline because there will always be a gap between your SS for me to Haunt you. So it is both a EHP and DPS loss versus a WD. And thats why DHs fail so badly versus good WDs.

[predsr]

You will always be able to get haunt, but with legacy set you can use Smokescreen more often to mig damage

[franq]

@GREEN2172

I think it is really funny. I read almost everything of these forum the last days and there is one thing about you.
IN EVERY TOPIC talking about legacy nats or balancing the league YOU ARE THE ONLY GUY that is so massive against legacy nats and you write to all topics with: BAN IT, WOULD BE AWESOME, FIXES PROBLEMS, ETC many times.

Why dont you just let legacy users be legacy users... they probably paid much to get one and if u think its so good you can save money and get one, too. There are so many on the AH every day! But there arent even many DHS using it here... Many use new Nats and do even better then guys with the old one. There is pros and cons everywhere!

But i think nobody should be forced to buy other items in this league EVER because some of us played hundreds of hours to get what we have and some of us probably paid real money, too.

Balancing must go via spells and other rules.

Most people in these forums here are fine with legacy nats but i feel you are the only guy that wants it banned so hard.
Its everyones own decision: Buy one on the ah or use new nats or even Mempo-Build as dh.
Also you cant tell a Barb that paid billions of gold for PVP Gear (maybe just as legacy dh) to not buy high hp gear or lifereg gear like some of the top barbs.

Just my 2cents lol...

[GREEN2172]

YOU ARE THE ONLY GUY that is so massive against legacy nats

Read what many ppl wrote in ruleversion topic: they don't want to ban their skills vs DH because DH can kite them all the time BUT this is ONLY about legacy nats. So I'm not only one who complain 'bout it.

Why dont you just let legacy users be legacy users... they probably paid much to get one and if u think its so good you can save money and get one, too. There are so many on the AH every day!

As I posted in ruleversion thread you cannot buy endgame legacy nat because ppl who have it don't want to sell it, you can go back there and check screenshoots. So you want to force all new nat users to buy average legacy nat? As you said " there arent even many DHS using it", so in your opinion most of DH with new nats must be forced to spend money or less legacy nat users to buy new? Briliant idea. And as I said many times: you cannot buy good set because it doesn't drop anymore. Blizz changed this set because it was OP and you are abusing now fact that Blizz didnt removed it from game.

Many use new Nats and do even better then guys with the old one. There is pros and cons everywhere!

Only DH from rank:
1. old nat.
2. new nat (me).
3. new nat.
4. old nat.

I don't see any problem with rules for DH vs Wizz or DH vs Monk, but legacy nat give you a big advantage against Barbs and non-legacy DH, and that's problem because they don't want to ban their OP skills because they gonna lose with legacy nat users, but non-legacy don't have chance without balancing it. I don't want to ban this set, i just want 2 different type of rules for legacy and non-legacy DH. I have both sets, and with cheapets legacy set on AH (20kk for all) I have 1000% more chance against barbs and other DH than with my new nat which cost a lot more. Did you played 100+ duels with both sets? If no it's EOT for me.

But i think nobody should be forced to buy other items in this league EVER because some of us played hundreds of hours to get what we have and some of us probably paid real money, too.

hehehe, so a few legacy users cannot be forced to buy new set, but most of DH must be forced to buy legacy? As I said:  different type of rules for legacy and non-legacy DH will solve this problem.

Balancing must go via spells and other rules.

I agree.

Most people in these forums here are fine with legacy nats but i feel you are the only guy that wants it banned so hard.
Its everyones own decision: Buy one on the ah or use new nats or even Mempo-Build as dh.
Also you cant tell a Barb that paid billions of gold for PVP Gear (maybe just as legacy dh) to not buy high hp gear or lifereg gear like some of the top barbs.

Just my 2cents lol...

Go up and read my arguments:) I dont want to ban any gear, just want to set different rules, and if you don;t understand it buy legacy and non legacy sets, go and test it against all classes. I made it and I;m sure that we cannot have 1 set of rules against DH.

edit: just checked and I'm not suprised you defend this set as one of legacy set users;)

[predsr]

After all these so call tests, would be nice to see what you actuly think needs changing for legacy users

And not being able to buy the higher end stuff is BS, i got two of the items within the last 2 weeks, 3 with last month

[GREEN2172]

After all these so call tests, would be nice to see what you actuly think needs changing for legacy users

Simple: you can kite barb all the time and use SS because of your dysc regen - non legacy users not. So we must change something what will give non-legacy users any chance, for example banning sprint (barb still can take us with jump or spear skill etc.) or banning inspiring presence to prove that equally geared non legacy DH and barb can kill each other. For now there is no way to kill good barb with non-legacy set.

In non-legacy DH vs legacy DH duel we must make something to balance dyscypline, because now non-legacy DH cannot kill running&hiding legacy DH, because we just don't have enough dyscy to hide in SS and you have. Dunno how solve this problem, maybe with banning preparation in legacy DH.

Predsr just buy any non-legacy set and try to play some matches, because you don't know problems of the other side-my side.

[predsr]

Atm i cant afford any non-legacy set, if i was gonna do tests with some, id only do with with the very high end stuff to get more of a fair test

Your right i dont know the problems of your side, thats why im asking for suggestion on what you think would balance the matches out

[GREEN2172]

Your right i dont know the problems of your side, thats why im asking for suggestion on what you think would balance the matches out

We both know that we will die in face to face situation with good barb dont matter what set we have. The problem is you can hit&run all the time, we can hit&run maybe 30 seconds. With non-legacy DH barb should have banned big hp regeneration or sprint.

The same problem is with legacy DH vs non-legacy DH - we both can kill each other with 1-2 shoots, but non-legacy just dont have dyscypline after 10-15 seconds of fight and he die. The only way to face legacy dh without legacy set is to make full tank with 40k dps for gear worth 10b or more (like emmet). In this duel we should make something to balance dysc (banning preparation in legacy DH?) or banning speed passive in legacy DH (to forbid their hit&run tactics until enemy dont have dyscypline).