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[RoGH]

Ladies, dont act childlish here, we all want to develop some fair rules for all matchups, thats all. Play some more duels, test our draft rules, give us more feedback, use smart arguments... And even if some rules which you dont accept will stand in final version, there is always turning back, if next season ( or some tournament before that )will show that there is some big imbalance in matchups for example in dh vs barb in favor of dh, there is no problem to change it next season or even before it.

Im happy that we already have some nice feedback and spicy discussions, thats great, but chill a bit

[error]

I really wonder what makes you think otherwise. But something has to be done to balance Barb vs DH encounters, don't you think?

You just admit..Matchup's were very close and something need to be done..So You took core skill from Barb that many barbs invest billions of gold into it witchout touching DH..that's balance?

I see there is no point in further discussion with DH's that make the rules and compete in league.

Ok, I will simplify this so you can understand.
Your Win/Loss score in the league vs DH is 13/2, this is a 87% success ratio.

Now you have 2 options:
1- Keep this obvious trolling up.
2- Admit some balance is needed.

[KNHO]

I´ve just posted this @ the "Legacy Nats" Topic. I quess it´s also belonging too in this discussion.

I got the new Nat Set, and i am fighting a lot of Barbarians. If you look @ my profile, i got not the absolutely top gear, but it´s still far away from average. Im sure that i am not as good as Lilith or Mysticalz @ the moment, and i got to practice a lot more....but, i only can agree with Green here.

The duels vs Barbs (Painsup, Sprint, Rend, Chicken, Regenerate) <--- Standart style nowadays, is just making me mad.
When i hit them hard, they just sprint away and regenerate, i am forced to chase them and waste all my discipline to get a "Maybe" kill, if i can´t kill him...he just fucks me up, coz im out of disci. Ofcourse i just can say "F... you", i don´t chase you, but then he will everytime come out back from behind the walls with full hp, and the game starts again. The duel lasts so long, till he lands 2 lucky rends, for the cost of all my 158 discipline = Dead. I would very appreciate if the experienced non legacy DH´s give me information ( How to) about their dominating vs Barbarians, i am allways willing to learn.

[devilek666]

I really wonder what makes you think otherwise. But something has to be done to balance Barb vs DH encounters, don't you think?

You just admit..Matchup's were very close and something need to be done..So You took core skill from Barb that many barbs invest billions of gold into it witchout touching DH..that's balance?

I see there is no point in further discussion with DH's that make the rules and compete in league.

Ok, I will simplify this so you can understand.
Your Win/Loss score in the league vs DH is 13/2, this is a 87% success ratio.

Now you have 2 options:
1- Keep this obvious trolling up.
2- Admit some balance is needed.

take a note that I lost 10 all together..so 2 looses against DH gives 20% of all looses..that's 1/5..there is 5 classes so I think my Barb vs DH is in a right place..

I agree balanced is needed but this is just a face palm.

I think that You should Ban berserker in this matchup instead of inspiring...or if You take inspiring presence, You should ban Preparation skill from DH cause now it will be basiccly like this: aggresive DH chasing kamping barb. if You get hit, You use preparation and run around map waiting for cooldow..Barb's won't be aggressive anymore cause few of Your shots can kill them + if You add stun runes, it's just 100% death....they will kamp and hide.

[GREEN2172]

if You add stun runes, it's just 100% death

Bitch please... use passive "Juggernaut". You are so prO and you didn't know it?

[devilek666]

if You add stun runes, it's just 100% death

Bitch please... use passive "Juggernaut". You are so prO and you didn't know it?

Bitch please...Why You don't want to listen other solutions? You guys just want ban core skill of barb and that's it..You don't consider relentless or berserker...Just this and shut up..Juggernaut instead of armor without life regen?? good luck with that 

why You don't take anything from DH, just from Barb?

[GREEN2172]

You guys just want ban core skill of barb and that's it..You don't consider relentless or berserker...Just this and shut up..Juggernaut instead of armor without life regen?? good luck with that 

why You don't take anything from DH, just from Barb?

Yes, I agree with you, we want to ban core skill that makes PvP unballanced:) First time I must agree with ya.

As far as I know you from your posts you want to ban SS in DH for sure?
EOT for me (with devil ofc).

[Euronymous]

We don't need a video, just understand those facts vs equaly skilled and geared opponents:

1- New Nats DH vs Barb:
   - Barb wins no matter what.
   - Vast majority of DH are New Nats.

2- Leg Nats DH vs Barb:
   - Stupidly long rounds, 15 minutes or more. (Where's the fun in this???)
   - Barb has advantage:
      - DH can't make any error.
      - Barb can reset the encounter via hide and regen.
      - DH is prone to make errors because of fatigue.
   - If the barb can't win switches to Cat vs Mouse stalemate.

I really wonder what makes you think otherwise. But something has to be done to balance Barb vs DH encounters, don't you think?

I know they said they don't want to ban gear, but one has to realize that banning certain skills has the same effect. You have to maximize the potential of your gear around skills.

If I translate your comparison from above to the new rules suggested I get

Legacy nats vs. Barb:
DH wins no matter what
- unless barbs find a completely different gearset for a couple of billions that is as effective as the inspiring presence build to stand a chance
- vast majority of previously new nats DH will buy a cheap legacy nats set to get easy wins vs. barb

New nats vs. Barb:
possibly balanced
- lots of barbs still have to re-gear because it doesn't make sense to have 200k HP if you have no %HP-based regen anymore

I believe it makes more sense to just ban legacy nats in that match-up. Few DH will have to change to new Nats (most probably have a set stashed) and Barbs will have a chance to win with some adjustments.
An alternative to banning the set would be "if DH uses legacy nats, barbs are allowed to use inspiring presence". I just don't see the point of banning skills that you build around or that make or break a class. Have you looked at changes like movement speed caps? If you think back to D2 rules, all match-ups had different movement speed caps. I'm no expert at legacy nat DH vs. Barb, but maybe it would be sufficient to slightly reduce the Barbs movement speed? They usually play with 24%+marathon? How about 12%+marathon for a test?

[IMP-Executioner]

hum ... i can understand devil somehow its maybe a problem of gear/setup

i never fought vs him but i think he has top highend str/vita gear that is most expensive atm.
Vimer and i have more passive lifereg on our gear so we think the new rules will be okie. If i had 500 lifereg and not the 2500-3500 i use atm i would also feel like needing new barb-gear.

just my 2 cent ^^

[predsr]

Legacy nats vs. Barb:
DH wins no matter what
- unless barbs find a completely different gearset for a couple of billions that is as effective as the inspiring presence build to stand a chance
- vast majority of previously new nats DH will buy a cheap legacy nats set to get easy wins vs. barb

I think these are both kinda false, cheap legacy nats wont win vs barbs, played lots of games yesterday, both of the top barbs won most of the games, the only barb i won (approx 10:6?) wasnt even his main, and i doubt his gear is even near the tier as the top barbs i faced

[Iownyou]

1)I think u must olso ban archon whit the skill that explode for 1600 weapon domage this skill can oneshot a full tank barb in 1 hit and is not so easy to dodge

2)I agree whit euronimus for legacy set ban but i add that barb must olso have wotb banned vs dh

sorry for my english i know it suck :-P gl hf all

[predsr]

I dont see wotb being that much of a game breaker vs dh, tho, no idea agasint a non legacy

[Crensh]

Just my two cents from the perspective of a monk: DH still has quite a big advantage being able to move twice as fast as a monk, invisible/immortal most of the time with nearly infinite resources regeneration. I personally did not find the "bunker" gameplay that OP compared to other DH's mechanics.
Overall this set of rules seems like a step forward but I was kind of hoping to see some restrictions which would limit the kiting and favor actual fighting.

[Blud]

OK, add me ingame, I need BARBARIANS to test rules.

WD vs DH rules =  JOKE.

[GREEN2172]

Just my two cents from the perspective of a monk: DH still has quite a big advantage being able to move twice as fast as a monk, invisible/immortal most of the time with nearly infinite resources regeneration. I personally did not find the "bunker" gameplay that OP compared to other DH's mechanics.
Overall this set of rules seems like a step forward but I was kind of hoping to see some restrictions which would limit the kiting and favor actual fighting.

Only legacy users can move all the time faster then you, they spend 12dysc to run with +60 speed and jump twice and gain in the same time 15 dysc. Most of DH with new nat can run faster then you only for some time (to end of dysc).

Pls guys if you saying something about DH write if its new nat or legacy nat, because they are 2 different kind on gamestyle and we cannot make one set of rules for DH.