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[GREEN2172]

I see..you just wanna be on top next season

If being in top was my priority I could buy 6-8b gold now, in next 10 minutes, but suprising it's not my priority:) Just playing here because farming is boring and I want to know how far can I go with items earned from playing, not from chinese boters:) You really think that being in top on site with ~300 users will be something to be proud? I'm writing here because i'm just tired with hit&run barbs.

[VimeR]

I decided write more about new rules for barbarians.

1. barb vs barb - nothing has changed. Barb mostly play with 2 hand weapon

2. barb vs dh - before barb had the advantage. Now i think is aligned, hard to fight with old nat set but you can win.

3. barb vs monk - nothing has changed

4. barb vs WD - Most interesting for me. Im happy with removal hex. Now I don't need use Wotb. And  “Spirit Walk” or “Spirit Vessel” vs “Inspiring presence” is good deal. Now duels vs WDs will not be annoying like before.

5. barb vs wizz - wizzard I think is weak in pvp, need of reinforcements with all classes.

New rules for barbs are good. Need to consider a new tactic, not to defend our class but think about balancing everything.

[DaRkE]

Remember that theese are a propsal of the rules for season 2.

They are released to the public before the season start to create a phase of test and constructive feedback.
---------------------------- --------------------------------------- ------------------------------------- -------------------------------
The goal of d3cl is to create a united and joyfull pvp community so please try and work towards the rules and look for options, for example can i replace inspiring presence with 25 % armor?*

I think no one benefits from just pointing out flame and hate towards eachother without legitimate reasoning behind the statements.

Testing / Gear setups / Player skill determination / win / loss ratio with you and that player before the changes.

------------------------ --------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------- -------------------------------
/ TRY TO DUEL MANNERCOOKIE

TRY TO DUEL MYSTIO

US WITCH DOCTORS ARE JUST SO BAD

EU BARBS SUCKS /
----------------------- -------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- ----------------------------------
Skill level of the player base cross regions and classes are usually appriximatly the same, regardless of directions and strategies you found to be cleaver for your class somone else might have found another way that is aswell good.

This has been proven in many strategy, rpg and moba games it is actually a direct line for all games.
---------------------- --------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------ --------------------
This is not regarded constructive feedback and will most likley be ignored and if you do however have valid points, this kind of behavior does not help to create a solution and even can make you look kind of stupid.

[kaio]

Remember that theese are a propsal of the rules for season 2.

They are released to the public before the season start to create a phase of test and constructive feedback.
------------------------------- --------------------------------- ------------------------------------------ -----------------------------
The goal of d3cl is to create a united and joyfull pvp community so please try and work towards the rules and look for options, for example can i replace inspiring presence with 25 % armor?*

I think no one benefits from just pointing out flame and hate towards eachother without legitimate reasoning behind the statements.

Testing / Gear setups / Player skill determination / win / loss ratio with you and that player before the changes.

---------------------------- ----------------------------------------- -------------------------------- ----------------------------------
/ TRY TO DUEL MANNERCOOKIE

TRY TO DUEL MYSTIO

US WITCH DOCTORS ARE JUST SO BAD

EU BARBS SUCKS /
----------------------------- ------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------- --------------------
Skill level of the player base cross regions and classes are usually appriximatly the same, regardless of directions and strategies you found to be cleaver for your class somone else might have found another way that is aswell good.

This has been proven in many strategy, rpg and moba games it is actually a direct line for all games.
-------------------- ----------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------- -----------------------------
This is not regarded constructive feedback and will most likley be ignored and if you do however have valid points, this kind of behavior does not help to create a solution and even can make you look kind of stupid.

+1

[error]

I decided write more about new rules for barbarians.

1. barb vs barb - nothing has changed. Barb mostly play with 2 hand weapon

2. barb vs dh - before barb had the advantage. Now i think is aligned, hard to fight with old nat set but you can win.

3. barb vs monk - nothing has changed

4. barb vs WD - Most interesting for me. Im happy with removal hex. Now I don't need use Wotb. And  “Spirit Walk” or “Spirit Vessel” vs “Inspiring presence” is good deal. Now duels vs WDs will not be annoying like before.

5. barb vs wizz - wizzard I think is weak in pvp, need of reinforcements with all classes.

New rules for barbs are good. Need to consider a new tactic, not to defend our class but think about balancing everything.

+1

[GREEN2172]

I decided write more about new rules for barbarians.

1. barb vs barb - nothing has changed. Barb mostly play with 2 hand weapon

2. barb vs dh - before barb had the advantage. Now i think is aligned, hard to fight with old nat set but you can win.

3. barb vs monk - nothing has changed

4. barb vs WD - Most interesting for me. Im happy with removal hex. Now I don't need use Wotb. And  “Spirit Walk” or “Spirit Vessel” vs “Inspiring presence” is good deal. Now duels vs WDs will not be annoying like before.

5. barb vs wizz - wizzard I think is weak in pvp, need of reinforcements with all classes.

New rules for barbs are good. Need to consider a new tactic, not to defend our class but think about balancing everything.

+1

+1. I know that this post may be consider like spam, but it's only way to agree with someone:P

[error]

To all: get out of there and test !!! Find new tattics and come back with feedback

My class with new nat don't get any serious nerf, I'm just angry that if you don't ban pets for WD and Inspiring Presence for barb I will be forced to buy A LOT of gold for money and try to convince some old DH to set his good legacy set. It's not good to force ppl to search&buy items that Blizzard deleted from game drop;] Legacy nat users can kite all the time - we not, legacy nat users can spam ss - we not - that's main reason why all barbs and WD consider DH like "OP" enemy, but it's possible only with legacy set.

For example: Jump cost 8dysc, second jump 4 dysc - legacy nat users can use one jump 0,5s and after that he have 2s +60 speed from passive->next jump 0,5s +2s +60 speed. 5 seconds kiting cost 12 dysc, and they regenerate 2dysc/1s from set +1dysc/1s normally = 3d/1s. In 5 seconds they will spend 12 dysc and gain 15 dysc;]

If you don't want to ban items like legacy nat set just make rules against new nat set and legacy nat set - for example new nat users are near to impossible to kill equaly geared barb with Inspiring Presence, but legacy set users can kite them all the time and they have a chance, we not.

I have both sets and I've tried any combination of sets and tactics very extensively in DH vs Barb. With the new set taking down a good skilled and geared Barb is just impossible because of resource starvation. The only alternative is using a legacy set with 20% lower DPS and 20% lower EHP.
As a legacy nats user you won't believe the ridiculous amount of time you need to take down a barb without making any error. We are talking about every round lasting 15 minutes or longer, no kidding.
Maybe you are superman but me, phisiologically speaking, after 45 minutes of paranoid aiming and microing like there's no tomorrow, can't stand a full challenge. While barbs can just run arround for 20 seconds and remedy any mistake they did. In my country we call this unfair exploitation.
There's no fun in such long encounters for me. Non believers check this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHffLOEfNkE and bear in mind the barb isn't even playing cat vs mouse.

[GREEN2172]

+1 error - that's what i have in mind:) With old natalya you can kite and hit (and remember that this barb from movie don't use sprint! with sprint we can hit max 1-2 times from long distance and run) and with his hp regen is very hard to kill even with old nat. With new nat it's immossible with this hp regen.

[devilek666]

To all: get out of there and test !!! Find new tattics and come back with feedback

My class with new nat don't get any serious nerf, I'm just angry that if you don't ban pets for WD and Inspiring Presence for barb I will be forced to buy A LOT of gold for money and try to convince some old DH to set his good legacy set. It's not good to force ppl to search&buy items that Blizzard deleted from game drop;] Legacy nat users can kite all the time - we not, legacy nat users can spam ss - we not - that's main reason why all barbs and WD consider DH like "OP" enemy, but it's possible only with legacy set.

For example: Jump cost 8dysc, second jump 4 dysc - legacy nat users can use one jump 0,5s and after that he have 2s +60 speed from passive->next jump 0,5s +2s +60 speed. 5 seconds kiting cost 12 dysc, and they regenerate 2dysc/1s from set +1dysc/1s normally = 3d/1s. In 5 seconds they will spend 12 dysc and gain 15 dysc;]

If you don't want to ban items like legacy nat set just make rules against new nat set and legacy nat set - for example new nat users are near to impossible to kill equaly geared barb with Inspiring Presence, but legacy set users can kite them all the time and they have a chance, we not.

I have both sets and I've tried any combination of sets and tactics very extensively in DH vs Barb. With the new set taking down a good skilled and geared Barb is just impossible because of resource starvation. The only alternative is using a legacy set with 20% lower DPS and 20% lower EHP.
As a legacy nats user you won't believe the ridiculous amount of time you need to take down a barb without making any error. We are talking about every round lasting 15 minutes or longer, no kidding.
Maybe you are superman but me, phisiologically speaking, after 45 minutes of paranoid aiming and microing like there's no tomorrow, can't stand a full challenge. While barbs can just run arround for 20 seconds and remedy any mistake they did. In my country we call this unfair exploitation.
There's no fun in such long encounters for me. Non believers check this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHffLOEfNkE and bear in mind the barb isn't even playing cat vs mouse.

From vide You posted what we can see?? That Barb is constantly chasing DH with 5-20% life and from time to time is able to land 1 rend..barb is not dying cause have relentless and inspiring presence...this udel is veryt long BECAUSE is very CLOSE matchup..now take away inspiring presence and how this match would end? barb slaughtery...
can You show me a video of testing with high lvl barb vs dh without inspiring presence?? cause all I see is +1 from numerous DH's.

i think that more reasonable change would be to take away relentless instead of inspiring presence.

[Lilith]

So atm if DH loose against non inspiring presence barb is really retarded dh..

So if i lost with sin im retarded? Come try test new rules but if u will lose with retarded dh u will be super retarded^^

[error]

From vide You posted what we can see?? That Barb is constantly chasing DH with 5-20% life and from time to time is able to land 1 rend..barb is not dying cause have relentless and inspiring presence...this udel is veryt long BECAUSE is very CLOSE matchup..now take away inspiring presence and how this match would end? barb slaughtery...
can You show me a video of testing with high lvl barb vs dh without inspiring presence?? cause all I see is +1 from numerous DH's.

i think that more reasonable change would be to take away relentless instead of inspiring presence.

We don't need a video, just understand those facts vs equaly skilled and geared opponents:

1- New Nats DH vs Barb:
   - Barb wins no matter what.
   - Vast majority of DH are New Nats.

2- Leg Nats DH vs Barb:
   - Stupidly long rounds, 15 minutes or more. (Where's the fun in this???)
   - Barb has advantage:
      - DH can't make any error.
      - Barb can reset the encounter via hide and regen.
      - DH is prone to make errors because of fatigue.
   - If the barb can't win switches to Cat vs Mouse stalemate.

I really wonder what makes you think otherwise. But something has to be done to balance Barb vs DH encounters, don't you think?

[devilek666]

Lol, my gear just got banned and You want to say if i won't win with handicapped legacy nat DH I'm retarded good DH's are laughing of You atm 

[devilek666]

I really wonder what makes you think otherwise. But something has to be done to balance Barb vs DH encounters, don't you think?

You just admit..Matchup's were very close and something need to be done..So You took core skill from Barb that many barbs invest billions of gold into it witchout touching DH..that's balance?

I see there is no point in further discussion with DH's that make the rules and compete in league.

[Lilith]

Your gear banned? What u mean? Btw  show me that good dh in eu who laugh at me:)

[GREEN2172]

I see there is no point in (...) compete in league.

At last... you're immune to logical arguments like a concrete wall, so I agree that further discussion with you is senseless.
in rule dev team was DH, Barb, WD, Monk and Wizz so... Vimer don;t have any problems with this changes, barb from dev team too.