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[MysticaL]

In my opinion, I think removing inspiring presence is a handicap for barbs.

If a DH user has good impale aim, and the barb has no inspiring presence, impale crits vs. the barb become very unforgiving, imagine 30k impale crits. You need 12-15seconds to regen just one crit? AND you have to chase a legacy nats user while being forced to take more impale crits?

The real "problem" with this matchup is not gear or balance in my opinion. I think Barb vs DH is pretty balanced. The problem is the SKILL level required to play.

It is extremely easy for a Barb to just sprint in non-linear patterns and try to cut off the DH with Leap/Charge. It is SO much harder for the DH to kite, manage discipline, react fast to leaps/charges, have unpredictable movement, need to have godly impale AIM (you never shoot at barbs, you shoot where they WILL be), etc.

I think this is just something that the players have to accept and overcome. It's very hard and needs skill, I know (and  this is the most frustrating fact about DH vs Barb, that you have to outskill to be on even grounds). But if you interfere with this by giving barbs a handicap to accommodate DHs that have a hard time, then the "good" DHs will not lose to barbs

[predsr]

How about giving Sharpshooter a miss vs barbs? Your first 2 hits(providing they ~1.5) sec will be guranteed crits, its very easy to burst down a barb once you been kiting/they been hiding for 10 secs or so

latest barbs duels go something liek this for me at the moment, .go > 2crit impales(+dot crit) > same again > barb uses iron skin > wait it out > chase barb with more guranteed impale crits

[MysticaL]

Also I want to add something about this rule:

-   In duels versus the “Demon Hunter” the Witch Doctor is not allowed to use “Summon Zombie Dogs” or “Gargantuan”.

There is no WD that can win under these conditions lol it's just impossible vs. a DH without zombie dogs, you guys are removing the core skills of all the classes :/

[GREEN2172]

I think Barb vs DH is pretty balanced. The problem is the SKILL level required to play.

So now change set to new nat, go and make it with this set:)
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Impossible? So without baning this skill 90% of DH with new nat are forced to spend ~2kkk for average legacy nat?

For me they can make as euro said: hp regen passive is allowed if opponent use legacy nat.

[predsr]

Also I want to add something about this rule:

-   In duels versus the “Demon Hunter” the Witch Doctor is not allowed to use “Summon Zombie Dogs” or “Gargantuan”.

There is no WD that can win under these conditions lol it's just impossible vs. a DH without zombie dogs, you guys are removing the core skills of all the classes :/

I can see that happening.. yet to test, but also they aint allowed a shield also right?

[predsr]

@green, whats your EHP in your gear?

[GREEN2172]

@green, whats your EHP in your gear?

I'm now farming, after run I'm gonna change items and check.

edit: tfu, edit 2: 785k unbuffed.
http://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/green-2172/MojaLasia/7091272

[Lilith]

I think Barb vs DH is pretty balanced. The problem is the SKILL level required to play.

So now change set to new nat, go and make it with this set:)
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Impossible? So without baning this skill 90% of DH with new nat are forced to spend ~2kkk for average legacy nat?

For me they can make as euro said: hp regen passive is allowed if opponent use legacy nat.

2kkk^^? I can sell u main set for 2kk and than i will buy 1 another and save 1kkk for new gems;p

[GREEN2172]

@Lil: maybe not 2kkk, but 1kkk is a lot to much to force 90%dh to spend:) I was searching for good legacy armor and... with max dysc affix it starting from 100-200-300kk+ max to 1kkk for only armor;) Try to find helmet like yours on AH, you gonna be suprised.

[error]

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I think this is just something that the players have to accept and overcome. It's very hard and needs skill, I know (and  this is the most frustrating fact about DH vs Barb, that you have to outskill to be on even grounds). But if you interfere with this by giving barbs a handicap to accommodate DHs that have a hard time, then the "good" DHs will not lose to barbs

And this is how it should be. Good players should win don't you think? Now good players lose and it is not normal.

We are talking about averages, the total average Barb vs DH encounters should be about 50/50, we don't need more rock/paper/scissors we've had a whole season of this.

Obviously we don't either want Barb vs Legacy Nats DH to be 0/100. It has to be 50/50 for legacy and non legacy. And yes, it is difficult.

[Kitikonti]

Guys u cant ban skills/passives for the league purposes. Even this stupid  lol skill hex of wd (die in hell nubs) or wotb of barb (lol at ppl who leave game to reset coldown). Even if it wont lead to abuse from people making the rules, it is too hard to balance and will lead to massive rage from ppl from league and unsuscribing. This is blizz job (save rage for them). It is easier to balance making limits for gear stats/pieces/sets like it was in d2 (those imba dps sets can be sill used in pve).

If u ban skills it will lead to rage + loss of immense amount of gold that some ppl spent for pvp (for example barbs massive vit/health regen gear useless for pve, classes like dh or monk didnt changed almost enything on conversion from pve becouse of their class mechanics/skills and skills like vault or smoke screen wont be banned fo sho).

 If u make stats limits it will bring more ppl to pvp becouse of cheaper gear and skills will be weaker thx to that. For example inspiring presence for barb. Make rule that barb cant have more life than for example 100k, bam! regen wont be so important and dhs wont cry (pussies) but! dhs cant have more dps than x and bam! impale wont 1 shot that barb.
I know i know those with imba gear will cry but it will be minority and they can still pve with it. Blizz fcked up that stats on gear matters so much it should have looked like in d2.

U c? I fixed pvp for u. Saved ur time. You can worship now great me!

Or instead we can w8 for blizz balancing and other pvp stuff (lol) unsuscribed from d3cl drinking bear.

[Damx]

@kitikonti
if u would follow the forums, u should know that item limitations were considered but that idea didnt went on

[devilek666]

In my opinion, I think removing inspiring presence is a handicap for barbs.

If a DH user has good impale aim, and the barb has no inspiring presence, impale crits vs. the barb become very unforgiving, imagine 30k impale crits. You need 12-15seconds to regen just one crit? AND you have to chase a legacy nats user while being forced to take more impale crits?

The real "problem" with this matchup is not gear or balance in my opinion. I think Barb vs DH is pretty balanced. The problem is the SKILL level required to play.

It is extremely easy for a Barb to just sprint in non-linear patterns and try to cut off the DH with Leap/Charge. It is SO much harder for the DH to kite, manage discipline, react fast to leaps/charges, have unpredictable movement, need to have godly impale AIM (you never shoot at barbs, you shoot where they WILL be), etc.

I think this is just something that the players have to accept and overcome. It's very hard and needs skill, I know (and  this is the most frustrating fact about DH vs Barb, that you have to outskill to be on even grounds). But if you interfere with this by giving barbs a handicap to accommodate DHs that have a hard time, then the "good" DHs will not lose to barbs

nothing to add...even top DH's saying that taking inspiring presence will kill barb won't convince other dh's.
that's so funny

someone brought up another important aspect..
atm most of DH use their farming high dps gear for PvP...barb need completly different setup..now You want to make this setup worthless...

I did check Vimer gear and it turns out that he has life regen on most peaces instead of vit..That's a cheaper option but atm this kind of items are very rare...I think he was able to face dh on new rules only because of this items and fact that he wasn't fighting agains top guys like Mystical.

anyway, You wait and see how many barbs will play in next season and what will be win ratio between dh.

atm in top 10 we have 2 barbs and 2 dh's.in top 15 4 dh's and 4 barbs...can it be more even?
and all of them lost quite a few games with dh's..
how do You think it will turn out with new rules? (tomas and iownyou play as monk and WD so i didn't count them)

Euronymous made a good post about 50/50 joke ratio

[devilek666]

1 more thing...

I remember when I started league and lost with predsr standing no chance..I had 12% MS that days..when I siwtched to Lacunis I start winning with DH's..I just checked and both Lilith and predsr use rare bracers, not lacunis...and they were using it in past when they defeated me..so when I had 12% MS i was loosing with DH's..game change is now when I have 24% MS and DH's still have 12%...that's just plain stupid..how can top dh run with 12% ms?...they should all switch to lacunis and then make balance ideas...

Is there any TOP DH willing to do test while they have 24% MS instead of 12?

[GREEN2172]

1 more thing...

I remember when I started league and lost with predsr standing no chance..I had 12% MS that days..when I siwtched to Lacunis I start winning with DH's..I just checked and both Lilith and predsr use rare bracers, not lacunis...and they were using it in past when they defeated me..so when I had 12% MS i was loosing with DH's..game change is now when I have 24% MS and DH's still have 12%...that's just plain stupid..how can top dh run with 12% ms?...they should all switch to lacunis and then make balance ideas...

Is there any TOP DH willing to do test while they have 24% MS instead of 12?

Omg man, you really have no idea about this game and other classes. 90%dh have MS in ina pants and nat boots, we don't need lacuni. Where did you bought so much gold?