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[devilek666]

MC build his EU char for 200m and has paragon 0 

[Lilith]

Coockie have 33k dps. LOL

[DaRkE]

was 69 a few minutes ago

I am am just trying to encouruge discussions without arguements that '' all barb eu suck'' really is dhs in eu so bad ?

It does not comprehend a logical and constructive rule development.

[Iria]

was 69 a few minutes ago

I am am just trying to encouruge discussions without arguements that '' all barb eu suck'' really is dhs in eu so bad ?

It does not comprehend a logical and constructive rule development.

Yes, let us cooperate to decide on what the rules should be. I am sure the top EU players are very skilled like the top NA players. Perhaps there is a different meta game in each region. Here in the Americas, Demon Hunters have zero problems against Monks and Wizards, these matches are so easy for DH it is very unfair. The NA league has a lot of monks, all of which were very easy pickings for DH. Against WD, the match is somewhat even if the WD stacks a lot of EHP; however, a DH that rushes in with fan of knives and impale can easily fix that lol (assumingt the DH also has some good EHP). Lastly, the hardest match-up by far for DH is the tanky Barbarian. Barbarians (like Mannercookie) have so much EHP and life regeneration that it can be borderline impossible to kill them, even with very high DPS. Their strategy is to retreat into corners until Ignore Pain is ready and then attack, only to retreat again 7 seconds later. They will use cover very effectively and nothing a DH has will penetrate it unless they use hungering arrow or something. Perhaps Mannercookie can link to his videos of his duels against top players.

[mannercookie]

Ok first off, Devil does not outgear me lol, and secondly it's not all about the gear alone.

Blud I met you on EU server, and honestly I've seen your gear and your playstyle. You will never have a chance playing like that vs a good Barb, it's only a matter of time before other barbs reach my gear level and start to realize how exposed a WD is to damage.

Anyhow, one bad WD's opinion doesn't even matter, I'm telling you guys right now taking away inspiring presence from a barb is redic for any matchup.

Barb vs DH, after having played my DH now and halfway towards gearing it, I can tell you the match is much closer than any of you think on EU, there are a lot of viable specs vs barbs as a DH that most of you have probably never even though of up yet. It's just too early to decide this matchup, DH is a very strong PVP class.

Barb vs Monk, is pretty balanced there doesn't ened to be any changes really.

Either way, any kind of rules like these are all bad imo.

It's way too early to declare yourselves masters of D3 PVP and think you know how to balance the game. Good players are still gearing up and starting to think about PVP. It's just too early in the patch/pvp, we haven't seen all viable specs/gear setups come out  yet.

The only reason WDs are on top in EU is because the rest of the classes aren't at the same gear level as the WDs in terms of pvp optimized gear.

Already too long of a post, I will possibly try the rules out and test it, but pretty sure the WD vs barb fight under these rules will be both classes going full cannon and the fight is over int he first 15 seconds of whether I one shot him with hota or not.

[IMP-Executioner]

@ mannercookie

can u give a hint whats the ehp you are always aiming for in pvp ~6 million ?

I´m still missing some gear but my way to go so far is 5 mio ehp in 2-handed and 6 k lifereg.
Worked very well so far. Only doesn´t break the 14 mio oneshot bells from thomas and sin. (monks)

and @ rules don´t really get it you want the dh to be buffed or nerfed ? Since i changed my lifepool from 70k to 160k i do not even need a shield any more vs dh.

[jointit]

Ok lets get practical, this is my barb and lets use him as an example (I kill you if you laugh at my weapon):
http://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/jointit-2392/BESTBARB/16498633

With better shoulders (crafted with 250 vita, 11% life)  and better amu (same but 200 vita) and 12% bt armor instead of phys res he should have around 200kish HP so like ~7mil ehp and 1.5k regen from eq. With the lowish hp atm relentless doesnt work like it should (the pool is too small) and Inspiring Presence the same. With upgrades he has 200k and then it works better.

OK, given that he does have the better EQ (we can replace with 4 piece blackie and str/vita rolls instead of dex where needed, I have those setups too with good rolls) whats the magic that EU barbs dont know about mannercookie? In the build - whats wrong with the barb above ? Get practical. Get straight - so far I´ve only heard that all is crap and EU has no clue, but I have yet to see any actual results from you. Youtube and twitch gives me nothing I dont already know and vs Monk I know you lost ike 15-0 vs SIN with EQ that should have render better results. Your words are getting empty cause you dont put up the results or gear and skill solutions that you obviously think we dont know about.

Good things though - These 1.2 rules obviously created a hefty discussion here which is good. ALOT of cards came to the table

[Blud]

OK MannerCookie, there's no need to make personal judgements about my playstyle because you haven't really see me play... I dueled for like 20 minutes with your shitty EU barbarian. Come on man, be honest, I wasn't even moving, it was so easy. How can you make judgements about my playstyle from 20min? I wasn't even using the build I need versus good barbarians.

I didn't say Devil outgears you. I asked: do you have more EHP than him? Thats unlikely, so it would be a matter of a bit more DPS and same EHP. Not a big deal. Then is all about player skill.

It's so easy to be a guru on the internet these days, and go around places criticising (not constructively) other players. Even insulting xD. If I'm such a bad WD, and I play the weakest class according to you, then all the other players in this league are atrocious. So cut the crap, please.

You come here with kid-like arguments "EU barbs suck" "WDs suck" etc etc. but I do not see any coherent reason or argument. I'm going to teach you something which is quite basic: when you state something, you must prove it or at least give some arguments in favour, otherwise it's invalid. If you went to school you should know that.

That said, I must admit that I totally agree with you about the rules. You guys (d3cl) should take it easy about rules right now. After a lot of testing, most rules you've come up with are complete nonsense. As MC said, players haven't geared to pvp accordingly yet, so give it a time. Besides, we have only 280 players in the league, out of these maybe, what, 10% with high-end pvp gear? Not even that... I would say 5-10 people.

I really think that all the rule development should be done carefully and slowly. Step by Step. And please, contact all the top players in the league to get our impressions, because the only one who's doing that is Kaio at the moment.

[IMP-Executioner]

Ok lets get practical, this is my barb and lets use him as an example (I kill you if you laugh at my weapon):
http://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/jointit-2392/BESTBARB/16498633

I like your Barb really much and its really near to the Stats that all Barbs try to reach.
Can you tell us something about your impressions vs for example blud, keen and  sin? Do you have the same problems like all others in the leaque vs them or can you beat them easily like mannercookie meant - i don´t think so? I also don´t think that we eu-barbs are all just stupid and unskilled. Maybe its a problem of map-using or abusing. I never tried to use the environment so far.

The last time i tried i didnt had a chance against blud - maybe there is just no us- wd using 3000 lifereg unbuffed?

[kaio]

OK MannerCookie, there's no need to make personal judgements about my playstyle because you haven't really see me play... I dueled for like 20 minutes with your shitty EU barbarian. Come on man, be honest, I wasn't even moving, it was so easy. How can you make judgements about my playstyle from 20min? I wasn't even using the build I need versus good barbarians.

I didn't say Devil outgears you. I asked: do you have more EHP than him? Thats unlikely, so it would be a matter of a bit more DPS and same EHP. Not a big deal. Then is all about player skill.

It's so easy to be a guru on the internet these days, and go around places criticising (not constructively) other players. Even insulting xD. If I'm such a bad WD, and I play the weakest class according to you, then all the other players in this league are atrocious. So cut the crap, please.

You come here with kid-like arguments "EU barbs suck" "WDs suck" etc etc. but I do not see any coherent reason or argument. I'm going to teach you something which is quite basic: when you state something, you must prove it or at least give some arguments in favour, otherwise it's invalid. If you went to school you should know that.

That said, I must admit that I totally agree with you about the rules. You guys (d3cl) should take it easy about rules right now. After a lot of testing, most rules you've come up with are complete nonsense. As MC said, players haven't geared to pvp accordingly yet, so give it a time. Besides, we have only 280 players in the league, out of these maybe, what, 10% with high-end pvp gear? Not even that... I would say 5-10 people.

I really think that all the rule development should be done carefully and slowly. Step by Step. And please, contact all the top players in the league to get our impressions, because the only one who's doing that is Kaio at the moment.

Thx

@IMP-Executioner duelled almost all of the best geared barbs (heroman, Jointit Vimer...) and most of all hide back walls, run to rep life or to restore spells...

Using (not abusing) map it's part of the game...

[IMP-Executioner]

@ Kaio, yes ofc i go also reggen  and don´t try to stay in line of sight but i don´t use cornerspots where u cannot be hit by arrows or something like that.

[Damx]

And please, contact all the top players in the league to get our impressions, because the only one who's doing that is Kaio at the moment.

In my opinion rulez should be optimized for all players top and bottom. Ofc it's too early to make such rulez, to early to make fairly any sentences about "balancing" pvp, but dont make few players oracles about the stuff .. the thing is working like it should be, some ppl think about it, then it happens, ppl get rulez, play 1-2 seasons then constructive topics in forums => change or maintaning the rulez by pieces ..

Making oracles from ppl always turn out wrong in the end. Especially in pvp leagues. thats my 2 cents !
ps. really looking up too this community!
cheers!

[Lilith]

@Damx

Its impossible if we dont add some gear restriction and i think thats the only way. PVP league should be based 100% at skill not gear that u can buy if u spend real money or thousad of hours in ah/farming. We should make to leagues. One, with no gear and skill restricion, and one near to 100% balanced for each class.

[RadL]

Using or abusing is a matter of opinion. One game a DH bunkered himself in the island with turrets, I asked nicely if he can stop abusing the map, because I just cant go there to chase him down on that fucking bugged circle with a barb, he answered stop abusing regen... Really is it the same thing from some peoples perspective? I found it hard to believe that they expected me to go in there to die, but apparently this is the case. They are even offended when I run out with low hp.
I support to ban such behavior, but I agree with Blud now, changes should be develop slowly. There must be very little experience yet. Also imo some of the changes will effect different results in mediocre gear players, which I guess hasnt been tested. In fact there cant be enough test even with top gear players.

[Damx]

@Damx

Its impossible if we dont add some gear restriction and i think thats the only way. PVP league should be based 100% at skill not gear that u can buy if u spend real money or thousad of hours in ah/farming. We should make to leagues. One, with no gear and skill restricion, and one near to 100% balanced for each class.

It's diablo3, its not skill, its items that give u the win in the long way .. and it's too early to generalize .. maybe with some actions the most powerfull items will be easy to get for every1 and then we will talk about the "skill", for now lets explore the game - coz like i see in this topic, we know repsectivly to little to just say " hey, its ok! now lets go to beer ! "