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[ximae]

adding +35% dmg is not the same 35% DR, the calc are done diffrent i belive after because of armour/resis etc


Ive also been told that elite dmg reduce does not work either(not tested myself), thats adding another ~20% dmg to our dmg

yeah that 35% dr would only be a 35% sheet dr if u had 0 armour and 0 resists, ill show u some numbers. but it is actually reducing 35% of inoming damage.

If say a barb has 90% dr from gear (ar + armour) and u add in the 35% dr the total damage reduction is: (1-0.9) x (1- 0.35) =  0,065 or 93.5% dr

so if u get hit by 1m hp with 90% dr = 1000000 x 0.1 = you take 100k hp
if u get hir for 1m hp with 93.5% dr = 1000000 x 0.065 = you take 65k hp

as u see it is actually 35% less damage you are taking. and the same for elite reduce stacks (though these have diminishing returns whe u stack more than 1)

[chucknorris#1885]

and the same for elite reduce stacks (though these have diminishing returns whe u stack more than 1)

I think elite/melee/ranged reductions have increasing returns the more you stack do they not?

[ximae]

no decreased, meaning if u stack 3 7 elite reduce items you dont get the 21% dr:

(1-0.07) x ( 1-0.07) x (1-0.07) = 0.804 which is 19.6% dr

with the previous barb: (1-0.9) x (1- 0.35) x (0.804) = 0.0523 or 94,77% dr

1m hp hit x 0.0523 = 52300 hp = 47.7% less dmg than the 90% dr barb. its not the 21+35 it seems it would be.

same goes for elite damage bonus the more pieces u stack the less effective the last one is.

[MysticaL]

no decreased, meaning if u stack 3 7 elite reduce items you dont get the 21% dr:

(1-0.07) x ( 1-0.07) x (1-0.07) = 0.804 which is 19.6% dr

with the previous barb: (1-0.9) x (1- 0.35) x (0.804) = 0.0523 or 94,77% dr

1m hp hit x 0.0523 = 52300 hp = 47.7% less dmg than the 90% dr barb. its not the 21+35 it seems it would be.

same goes for elite damage bonus the more pieces u stack the less effective the last one is.

are you sure about this? I think it's not true? I think each reduction has their own multiplier, so stacking 1 reduction is additive

e.g. -6% range, -21% elite = (0.94 * 0.79)

anyways sorry for the trash talking earlier, let's just wait for PTR to fix the bugs and test some stuff later >.>

[ximae]

pretty much, they are multiplicative not additive. just go to d3up.com stack some elite reductions and see what value it is giving you.

in that case it could be: 0.94 x 0.804 = 0,7558 x ur current mit x ur pvp dr

basically the first dr you stack over ur general dr gets full benefit after that benefits start to diminish.

So accounting that we are getting either 30% or 35% dr just entering the chappel any extra dr we have on gear is already being less effective.

[chucknorris#1885]

d3up tells me I gain more ehp per 1% reduction the higher my reduction of that kind...

[ximae]

ye ofc, the higher the dr the more ehp is each hp worth.

 im not saying u wont gain dr stacking more of it, im saying the more u stack the less close it is to the 7% gain per piece.

btw to check what im saying: check in d3up -> defensive specifics, stack 3 elite reduction mods and check if it says 21% elite reduction or 19.56

[chucknorris#1885]

pretty sure you are getting confused by semantics or the way they are labeling it.

for me
Missile Damage Reduction   6%
Melee Damage Reduction   31.01%
Elite Damage Reduction   13.51%
(yes these numbers are smaller than the sum of what I have on gear)

(however look at the ehp gains by stat
+1% Ranged Reduce    27,738.7
+1% Melee Reduce    37,799.96
+1% Elite Reduce    29,974.76

stacking more of one type makes every 1% OF THAT TYPE give more ehp. there are no diminishing returns in reality, only on the displayed %reduction.  also I believe blizz has even confirmed there are no diminishing returns on anything except dodge.

[N0F3aR]

Hi,
Want to give Barb vs Wizard feedback:
  After fighting different wizzards (non official matchs - practise and tryouts) i could say that i found 1 decent who knows how to play against barb - shadow88#2663. He plays on d3cl test league and as we can see he beated all barbs. I myself couldnt find build to beat him without war cry/double stun and wotb. He is using some kind of heavvy disable. When i use war cry and double stun - the fight is balanced (no wotb). I mean i am not op against that build using war cry and double stun. The winner of the fight is the one who outplays the other player. We made like 1 hour + brawling and we were on close fight. Ratio wins is like 60/40% (55/45%) for me but in the moment i make mistake and i am dead. Maybe the same goes for him. We had like 5 min fight - that means we were on balanced duel.
  So as we can see, war cry and double stun build is nesecary against decent and experienced wizard, who knows the weakness of barbs and knows how to play against them. Didnt try Wotb. Once i have time, i will try Wotb without war cry/double stun against him and give more feedback.
Thx for the time.

[Forti]

Like i said. Wizzard are not weak class. There are Just no enough skilled players. Now, when teleport Got buff,  we Need think about Wizzard in another way.

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[ximae]

pretty sure you are getting confused by semantics or the way they are labeling it.

for me
Missile Damage Reduction   6%
Melee Damage Reduction   31.01%
Elite Damage Reduction   13.51%
(yes these numbers are smaller than the sum of what I have on gear)

(however look at the ehp gains by stat
+1% Ranged Reduce    27,738.7
+1% Melee Reduce    37,799.96
+1% Elite Reduce    29,974.76

stacking more of one type makes every 1% OF THAT TYPE give more ehp. there are no diminishing returns in reality, only on the displayed %reduction.  also I believe blizz has even confirmed there are no diminishing returns on anything except dodge.

ur actually right!

ive been simulating more elite reduce into my gear and actually gaining 1k more ehp per next 1% added after each 7% increase.

so yeah i was getting mixed up with the shown elite reduce vs the total damage reduction. I just cant compare those extra drs to what ever gain u get on ur total dr. I knew there was no dimishing returns there, i just cant extrapolate one to the other, just do the math to calculate the total damage reduction.

[ximae]

Hi,
Want to give Barb vs Wizard feedback:
  After fighting different wizzards (non official matchs - practise and tryouts) i could say that i found 1 decent who knows how to play against barb - shadow88#2663. He plays on d3cl test league and as we can see he beated all barbs. I myself couldnt find build to beat him without war cry/double stun and wotb. He is using some kind of heavvy disable. When i use war cry and double stun - the fight is balanced (no wotb). I mean i am not op against that build using war cry and double stun. The winner of the fight is the one who outplays the other player. We made like 1 hour + brawling and we were on close fight. Ratio wins is like 60/40% (55/45%) for me but in the moment i make mistake and i am dead. Maybe the same goes for him. We had like 5 min fight - that means we were on balanced duel.
  So as we can see, war cry and double stun build is nesecary against decent and experienced wizard, who knows the weakness of barbs and knows how to play against them. Didnt try Wotb. Once i have time, i will try Wotb without war cry/double stun against him and give more feedback.
Thx for the time.

i have to agree to a ceratin point, for me barbs is one of the easier matchups... once i optimized my build i was having such an easier time i think they might be a little over nerfed, as i can usally go through warcry no problem. would need to go against the top tank barbs to see if that ehp is too tough to break through though, but it seems pretty doable.  k still lost vs hola a few days ago but it was pretty even on the otherhand I beat KatMPB fairly easily on the last game i played on test league, and im seeing he sould be a pretty good barb if he is up in the playoffs.

doublestun is a different story though, i have loads more trouble if im getting constantly stunned a i cant dish the dps out to go through, needs a little while as we have to channel since we dont have any one hit massive dpsers.

[ximae]

Like i said. Wizzard are not weak class. There are Just no enough skilled players. Now, when teleport Got buff,  we Need think about Wizzard in another way.

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well the new teleport mechanic is not going to be as game changing as u think, it is basically going to give us a bit better escape/chase machanism but still it has a big cooldown so once we have teleported we can get still chased down the same as were the slowest class. diff is now we wont get stuck on trees small walls and all that bullshit and get gibbed for it.

[Euronymous]

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/8569858822
Bug will get fixed before 1.08 release. Good job with the vid myst!

[MysticaL]

I hope they ninja fix it during their next PTR maintenance, I really wanted to test out DH potential with "hax OP gear" that I'll never afford on live, lol