• November 21, 2024, 23:11:26 pm
  • Welcome, Guest
Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Show Posts

This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.

Messages - error

Pages: [1] 2
1
Rules & development / Re: Ruleversion 1.2
« on: March 05, 2013, 21:05:00 pm  »
...

I think this is just something that the players have to accept and overcome. It's very hard and needs skill, I know (and  this is the most frustrating fact about DH vs Barb, that you have to outskill to be on even grounds). But if you interfere with this by giving barbs a handicap to accommodate DHs that have a hard time, then the "good" DHs will not lose to barbs

And this is how it should be. Good players should win don't you think? Now good players lose and it is not normal.

We are talking about averages, the total average Barb vs DH encounters should be about 50/50, we don't need more rock/paper/scissors we've had a whole season of this.

Obviously we don't either want Barb vs Legacy Nats DH to be 0/100. It has to be 50/50 for legacy and non legacy. And yes, it is difficult.

2
Rules & development / Re: Ruleversion 1.2
« on: March 05, 2013, 17:02:54 pm  »
I'm happy to find some constructive approaches to solve the current balance problem.

Let's make some testings with those proposed solutions and find what suits better with the common interest of the competition. I think we have to shorten duels, too long rounds are not OK because they are not fun.
Limiting MS% may be a possible solution to avoid excessive kiting and Cat vs Mouse stuff but these are tortuous grounds because it's either a skill or gear stat. It has to be tested until we find that MS% threshold.

We all know some regear must happen because the current state of the game is not balanced. My opinion is that we should focus in limiting the less quantity of gear per class. If we don't do that people wont play because it's not fun. To accomplish this we should focus in skill limitation first and then gear or stats limitation.

Maybe we should ban 1 dh skill and 2 barb skills, or 1 barb and 1 dh, or whatever combination... But we must find something that works with the total average of matches.

The total Win/Loss average of matches between all classes has to tent very close towards 50% ratio. League class balancing rules will be wrong until this is accomplished.

3
Rules & development / Re: Ruleversion 1.2
« on: March 05, 2013, 14:49:33 pm  »


I really wonder what makes you think otherwise. But something has to be done to balance Barb vs DH encounters, don't you think?

You just admit..Matchup's were very close and something need to be done..So You took core skill from Barb that many barbs invest billions of gold into it witchout touching DH..that's balance?

I see there is no point in further discussion with DH's that make the rules and compete in league.

Ok, I will simplify this so you can understand.
Your Win/Loss score in the league vs DH is 13/2, this is a 87% success ratio.

Now you have 2 options:
1- Keep this obvious trolling up.
2- Admit some balance is needed.

4
Rules & development / Re: Ruleversion 1.2
« on: March 05, 2013, 14:29:22 pm  »
From vide You posted what we can see?? That Barb is constantly chasing DH with 5-20% life and from time to time is able to land 1 rend..barb is not dying cause have relentless and inspiring presence...this udel is veryt long BECAUSE is very CLOSE matchup..now take away inspiring presence and how this match would end? barb slaughtery...
can You show me a video of testing with high lvl barb vs dh without inspiring presence?? cause all I see is +1 from numerous DH's.

i think that more reasonable change would be to take away relentless instead of inspiring presence.

We don't need a video, just understand those facts vs equaly skilled and geared opponents:

1- New Nats DH vs Barb:
   - Barb wins no matter what.
   - Vast majority of DH are New Nats.

2- Leg Nats DH vs Barb:
   - Stupidly long rounds, 15 minutes or more. (Where's the fun in this???)
   - Barb has advantage:
      - DH can't make any error.
      - Barb can reset the encounter via hide and regen.
      - DH is prone to make errors because of fatigue.
   - If the barb can't win switches to Cat vs Mouse stalemate.

I really wonder what makes you think otherwise. But something has to be done to balance Barb vs DH encounters, don't you think?

5
Rules & development / Re: Ruleversion 1.2
« on: March 05, 2013, 12:26:49 pm  »
To all: get out of there and test !!! Find new tattics and come back with feedback :)

My class with new nat don't get any serious nerf, I'm just angry that if you don't ban pets for WD and Inspiring Presence for barb I will be forced to buy A LOT of gold for money and try to convince some old DH to set his good legacy set. It's not good to force ppl to search&buy items that Blizzard deleted from game drop;] Legacy nat users can kite all the time - we not, legacy nat users can spam ss - we not - that's main reason why all barbs and WD consider DH like "OP" enemy, but it's possible only with legacy set.

For example: Jump cost 8dysc, second jump 4 dysc - legacy nat users can use one jump 0,5s and after that he have 2s +60 speed from passive->next jump 0,5s +2s +60 speed. 5 seconds kiting cost 12 dysc, and they regenerate 2dysc/1s from set +1dysc/1s normally = 3d/1s. In 5 seconds they will spend 12 dysc and gain 15 dysc;]

If you don't want to ban items like legacy nat set just make rules against new nat set and legacy nat set - for example new nat users are near to impossible to kill equaly geared barb with Inspiring Presence, but legacy set users can kite them all the time and they have a chance, we not.

I have both sets and I've tried any combination of sets and tactics very extensively in DH vs Barb. With the new set taking down a good skilled and geared Barb is just impossible because of resource starvation. The only alternative is using a legacy set with 20% lower DPS and 20% lower EHP.
As a legacy nats user you won't believe the ridiculous amount of time you need to take down a barb without making any error. We are talking about every round lasting 15 minutes or longer, no kidding.
Maybe you are superman but me, phisiologically speaking, after 45 minutes of paranoid aiming and microing like there's no tomorrow, can't stand a full challenge. While barbs can just run arround for 20 seconds and remedy any mistake they did. In my country we call this unfair exploitation.
There's no fun in such long encounters for me. Non believers check this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHffLOEfNkE and bear in mind the barb isn't even playing cat vs mouse.

6
Rules & development / Re: Ruleversion 1.2
« on: March 05, 2013, 11:59:53 am  »
I decided write more about new rules for barbarians.

1. barb vs barb - nothing has changed. Barb mostly play with 2 hand weapon

2. barb vs dh - before barb had the advantage. Now i think is aligned, hard to fight with old nat set but you can win.

3. barb vs monk - nothing has changed

4. barb vs WD - Most interesting for me. Im happy with removal hex. Now I don't need use Wotb. And  “Spirit Walk” or “Spirit Vessel” vs “Inspiring presence” is good deal. Now duels vs WDs will not be annoying like before.

5. barb vs wizz - wizzard I think is weak in pvp, need of reinforcements with all classes.

New rules for barbs are good. Need to consider a new tactic, not to defend our class but think about balancing everything.

+1

7
Rules & development / Re: Ruleversion 1.2
« on: March 04, 2013, 23:17:56 pm  »
I've been playing with Euronymous and other WD since the PTR and I can assure you that, for a DH, dueling against a  WD w/o minions the fight is sightly in favor to the DH. If WD's no Spirit Vessel and other deffensive habilities I doubt duels will require many skill for DH to kill them.

Please try to arrange some balancing pvp trials to figure out those changes. I'm up for it if you need a Legacy/Non Legacy DH to try stuff.

8
Rules & development / Re: Ruleversion 1.2
« on: March 04, 2013, 19:09:26 pm  »
It's nice to see the first version of a solid approach to balance class matching.
I just wanted to note that in DH vs Wiz matches applying both limitations at the same time seems a bit too much:
-   In duels versus the “Wizard” the skill “Companion” with the rune “Boar” is not allowed.
-   In duels versus the “Wizard” the skill “Preparation” with rune “Battle Scars” is not allowed.


There wouldn't be any problem if wizzards had Storm Armor banned. I'd love you to try this built against a no pig/no healing DH vs a Wiz using:
- Big fat Skorn
- Storm Armor:Thunder Storm
- Mirror Images:Duplicates
- Teleport:Wormhole

9
Rules & development / Re: D3CL PvP Rules - open discussion
« on: February 26, 2013, 13:20:01 pm  »
Limiting gear is not an option because it is not the problem. The problem is the exploit of game mechanics (built-playstyle). D3 gear, classes and skills are designed and balanced one arround the other and interfering with that will bring more problems than solutions.

Let's list the problems we actually detected so far:

- Class imbalances: WDs rule and Wizzards are bad. Skill mechanics between classes are not balanced for pvp.
- Stalemates:
  - Tank vs Low DPS: one or both opponents unable to kill the other. There's no challenge here.
  - Run for Regen:
    - Cat vs Mouse: outrun and hide waiting for regeneration or big cooldowns. Lame tactics if it gets exploited.
    - Mouse vs Mouse: this situation is the natural response to Cat vs Mouse. If you don't do this you will likely lose. Lesser lame tactics.
- 1 shot encounters: Some class-builts are favored by map positioning. First round advantage is easily held until victory. Results are extremely dependant in luck.
- Gear Bait-&-Switch: Some classes have a loose skill-gear coupling and receive extreme advantage with weapon and armor switch during encounters.

If you detect any other different problem please post its definition.

Proposed solutions:
- Class imbalances: Make a win/loss matrix with all encounters data and see what class-vs-class encounters need some kind of skill/rune limitation.
- Stalemates: More than 5 minutes rounds make no sense to me. Timeout could be a solution.
  - Tank vs Low DPS: IMO this shouldn't be allowed by any means. No player should be allowed to use a pure tanking built in the first round. Referee request?
  - Run for Regen: 5 minute timeout and the "mouse" opponent should lose the round.
    - Cat vs Mouse: one opponent at any time should be able to request a recess and get the presence of a referee that will spot the mouse and control the timeout.
    - Mouse vs Mouse: this not a real problem if there's a ref.
- 1 shot encounters: As mannercookie said, encounters should end with a streak of 3 or 4 consecutive wins or the best of 30 minutes duelling.
- Gear Bait-&-Switch: this is an honestity problem. I think built and gear should be able to switch if agreed even during the encounter but both parties should come town and check for the changes. As a solution I can only imagine to make a full blues inventory trade under request.

10
Community information and announcements / Re: Unsubscribe from D3CL League
« on: February 25, 2013, 21:49:54 pm  »
Hi there,

Please unsubscribe error#1177 .
See you arround for the 2nd edition!

I keep receiving challenges, ty

11
Community information and announcements / Re: Unsubscribe from D3CL League
« on: February 25, 2013, 00:03:19 am  »
Hi there,

Please unsubscribe error#1177 .
See you arround for the 2nd edition!

12
Rules & development / Re: D3CL PvP Rules - open discussion
« on: February 20, 2013, 17:57:30 pm  »
First of all I see banning skills in certain match-ups as a viable solution but it's not the best solution from my point of view. Is the way you use the skill mechanics what makes it OP, not the skill itself. For example if you ban Hex from WD-Barb encounters you are killing the built "Tank WD that uses Hex to avoid being damaged". We should be able to figure out every built/gear from every class or we will have many problems trying to come up with the skill balancing encounters table.

About the item switching this is very true and this is actually happening. That's why I got the idea from the "default" built that should also be extended to gear. Any player should know what's going to be used by the opponent every round because a built for some classes is skills and gear specific. Switching gear in the middle of the combat is the same as switching skills without having the 30 seconds penalty.

From this point, knowing what skills/gear are default for every player it should be easier to control match-ups vs other classes.

13
Rules & development / Re: D3CL PvP Rules - open discussion
« on: February 20, 2013, 17:24:24 pm  »
Anything with timer is clueless and heavily abused. History proved it. You play with watch or enjoy dueling?

I don't personally like to play with watch but I have a wife and a kid and the last think I want when I come home is chasing people for 20 minutes arround the map. Or even worse, not being able to kill them by any means. I want to enjoy this game and fool arround with the pvp option while having fun. But I may consider playing with watch as a solution.

We should be aware of current abuses with the challenge and rating ladder. I don't know if it's being already controlled but you can actually clog the challenge queue and minimize your challenge window availability to other people. I think one should have 10 limited challenge options but being always able to be challenged by anyone. Also there should be a timeout for incoming challenges so anyone wouldn't be allowed to delay an encounter without punishment. I just like to punish.
I also think it isn't good that you can duel against players with more than 100 score difference (up or down).

14
Rules & development / Re: D3CL PvP Rules - open discussion
« on: February 20, 2013, 16:23:05 pm  »
Are stalemates really that big of a problem right now? Wouldn't it be sufficient to just draw with +-0 for the rare occasion and avoid those players in the future? There are more than enough duelers out there to gain points.

Error, the rules you suggested would make dueling less fun for me. I really think what we need most now are match-up rules to even out class imbalances.
I obviously agree with kaio here, wizards need a huge buff by league rules.

Every player must have a defined standard built to avoid forced stalemates. If classes don't have a predefined built/playstyle there are more chances of forced stalemate.

a. Same build to begin all duels. Takes away one of the most interesting features D3 has to offer. I never had a stalemate yet, thanks to the diversity of WDs. If I see a really tanky barb I just pack more offensive skills. A "one-for-all" build would have to be balanced and therefore lack the damage needed to take down some tanks. In this case the rule would force me to force a stalemate.

Set of rules:
1- Rounds that last more than 5 minutes are draw (like a double KO) +1/+1.
2- Encounters that end in 5/5 (draw encounters) make both opponents lose double quantity of points.
3- Subsequent draw encounters will double the last penalty applied to each opponent (exponential growth for everyone).

b. This will give "bad mannered" players another option. Once you are leading, avoid getting killed for 5 minutes and you will win the duel.

I bet my underwear rubberband that something different being implemented will be less fun for you. WD excels in 1vs1 in terms of micromanaging, dps, skill mechanics and ehp(via induction). Blizzard did no mechanic balancing at all between classes. Wizzards and WDs are the living prove, both are ranged, based on the same main stat and a very similar resource system. ATM WDs are kings of pvp and Wizzys are the boufon. Sad but true.

Jokes appart, I will try to answer your statements:

A- Other classes simply can't get more DPS to take down tank barbs. The same way other classes can't have enough microing/DPS/EHP/skill mechanics to defeat certaing opponents. It is completely unfair receiving a challenge from a class-built one has no chance to defeat because of those inherent limitations. Then we either can restrict builts/skills against certain classes, limit some mechanics or promote stalemates as an option.
I personally don't like limitations because it will force us to use cookie cutter builts or getting rid -as you said- of most interesting features in the game.

B- I might not explained myself with the right example. The Prisonner's Dilemma is an iterative unregulated approach to achieve common weal. We may want to use stalemate as a not wished solution thus punishing its repeated use. If a player thinks smart because he's manipulating the challenge system clogging the limitation mechanism and just challenging players with builts over he's a clear advantage those classes can "punish" this behaviour by forcing stalemates from the first moment. I think a bad mannered player will be bad mannered from the start because he doesn't identify himself as bad mannered, he thinks he's better/smarter via abbusing ubalanced classes.
If i didn't misunderstand the scenario you stated the "bad mannered" player starts being bad mannered so he can win the first duel. There's also the possibility of the bad mannered using the draw 5 minute timer once he's had advantage. In this case we must implement a new rule that states something like:

- No player can change his built if he's in advantage.

I need you to keep thinking about scenarios with such conflicts and weird cases to find an acceptable solution for everyone.

15
Rules & development / Re: D3CL PvP Rules - open discussion
« on: February 20, 2013, 11:55:05 am  »
manner plays way behind role when it comes to ladders and winning .. its just human nature :P

Let's change the ladder system then. This solution can't be more simple: Prisoner's dilemma.
Set of rules:
1- Rounds that last more than 5 minutes are draw (like a double KO) +1/+1.
2- Encounters that end in 5/5 (draw encounters) make both opponents lose double quantity of points.
3- Subsequent draw encounters will double the last penalty applied to each opponent (exponential growth for everyone).

Exponential growth penalty is not an excessive penalty because the objective is to get rid of unwanted behaviours that harm the spirit of the competition. It will also get rid of certain builts/playstyles that feel bad to the majority of participants.
Any standard dueler may prefer forcing a stalemate if he truly believes he's not being bad mannered because he will have the opportunity to overcome a bad score of 2-4 or even 8 lost encounters in extreme cases.
Obviously if someone is facing a penalty of 16-32-64 encounters may think twice before forcing a stalemate (unless he's a psyco and wants to get buried in the ladder). Someone in this position must have common acceptance problems because many people in the competition don't like his ways and he is undoubtly bad mannered to the rest of the comunity in any sort of form.

Pages: [1] 2

BlackRain , 2006 by Crip
Diablo 3 PvP, Diablo 3 PvP

Page created in 0.111 seconds with 18 queries.