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[Wittster]

Hello there,

I'd like to start a separate topic to discuss the balance of this particular matchup. As a Monk, I feel like I am at a serious disadvantage here, given equal gear, but it is completely possible that I'm just being outplayed or biased towards my own class so I'd like other opinions and ideas to balance this matchup even more.

Some of my observations:

- If I can't 1-shot the DH, I can't kill him at all since he heals too fast.
- If the DH plays carefully, I can never ever reach him

I think either of these points alone would be fine, but combined, it's just too much and I would propose either of points below as a solution:

- cap hp at lets say 60k for DH and WD, 100k for all others.
- ban Vault

Are these nerfs too much? Would any other changes be better?

Discuss

[predsr]

if you cant catch the Dh, I think your being outplayed, try use a playstyle which forces them to come to you, i.e pillar hugging

I think a decent change would be to not allow the use of SharpShooter for the DH

[Wittster]

i mean pillar hugging shouldn't have to be the answer. The rules shouldn't promote passive play as the only viable option to win a particular matchup.

Banning Sharpshooter is a nice start

[predsr]

The problem is that a DH can play a style where he can never get hit (if hes using legacy your screwed)

Pillar hugging shouldnt have to be an answer i agree, however i dont think hes gonna wait for you to come out either, they can still Smokescreen in and out however it does force them to be in range for that kill sometimes

[Wittster]

Right, and that's ok I think. DH shouldn't get hit by melee unless he makes a mistake. The problem is that he can make mistakes and take hits but can still escape and regen afterwards.

Do you think banning Sharpshooter alone is enough to balance the matchup?

[predsr]

Hes the problem i see with sharpshooter vs monks atm;

My first impale will be 100% crit, even if you dodge, the rune 'chemical burn' the DoT, will still apply and it will be a crit dot, worst part is, the 100% crit buff will not be reset(i think?), so i can keep firing these dot crits that do huge dmg

Playing with sharpshooter, the basic tac is hit and run, let the dots do the work, eventualy grinding down his hp to zero

Now that i look at it, maybe sharpshooter is not the problem, but possibly banning the rune 'chemical burn' with imaple

Have you played both legacy and non-legacy Dh's? i use legacy and hit and run is the tac i use, and i abuse the shit out of vault since its almost free disc, not sure how a normal DH would go about it

EDIT: sharpshooter makes the rounds quicker for the DH, thats probably all, but then again, longer rounds should maybe lead to the monk catching the DH more quicker and allow the monk to 'chase'

[Wittster]

You're right, Sharpshooter is insanely strong in pvp.
I've played against many Legacy DH's and haven't really had trouble with any of them. For me a DH with very high ehp is much much harder.

[ricebowl]

Another problem is that if the DH simply dodges a hit for the .5 seconds out of smokescreen, all that effort is wasted.  Those windows are few and far in-between and if you get RNG dodged twice in a row you're bound to lose.  There's no way to heal against crit chemical burn over and over either.

If a DH can RNG dodge all of monks skills, including the only CC, blinding flash, I think getting rid of chemical burn would be the best choice to even the matchup as far as actually landing skills go.  It's unfair for monks to have the roll the dice on every skill and CC while the DH gets guaranteed DoT crits from afar.

[Forti]

I fighting agains dh many times. I won match only if dh was totally newbies.. he didnt using vault and/or ss like the others one.
What I mean. If dh got a bit skill (know how to using vault / ss and snapshooting) I can win a round only with a bit luck, but it is really hard to win all the match.

Monk is easy target while he running away. Monk can kill him only if dh make a mistake, with wave of light or ss.
How I play agains them? defense and camp... the only one way to win is bring him to us with camp on the other side of the wall or smth like that, when he showing use wave of light and get a luck to hit him one shot crit. Or catch it while running away from us with sss. Serenity and timing is the "win or lose".

Sorry but dh is stronger than monk.

[psykes]

I fully agree that DH is in a much better position in a fight vs Monk. They naturally have high dodge and in combination that the monk only has dodgeable targeted skills means that the monks needs to successfully do 3 things in a .5 sec window: 1) get in melee range, 2) be able to target the DH and activate the skill (in time) 3) hope that his one opportunity to attack is not dodged.

The only way to get close is dash (25 spirit) and all attacks worthwhile use at least 40 spirit with a spirit pool of 250 (with a passive). This in combination that monks only way to regen spirit is using items and passives to increase their innate regen from 0 to up to 12per sec. Furthermore, monks cannot really consistently run from a DH to regen means that we have up to 3 chances to kill the DH before we are sitting ducks.

Regarding possible ways to balance, I see 2 options. disallow chemical burn or battle scars. without battle scars we would be able to kill DH with 2 lucky dashes. Without chemical burn, we buy some time for additional opportunities to hit the DH.

[psykes]

Also I would like to add that Dash while looking quite strong on paper misses a lot due to latency in combination that DH never stand still but run with much increased move speed (which they should^^). I use Dash in all of my setups and I would think that I am quite practiced with it but against DH my miss rate is at around 50% where I only dash a minimal distance wasting mana.

[Wittster]

Thanks a lot for the input guys! It seems everyone agrees that DH has too much of an edge here and it seems like banning Chemical Burn in this matchup will level the playing field quite a bit so I will propose this for the new rule set due tomorrow.

[Lilith]

If u ban blind or companion u can ban chemical burn.

[predsr]

If u ban blind or companion u can ban chemical burn.

ive had no problems with these skills so far

[Lilith]

@predsr

Blind works when ss is lunched so its buged like ss+chemical burn. Companion+this stupid map=exploit  walls etc.

Guys if u argue that chemical burn should be nerfed cose it have bad mechanic we should ban all DoT skills. IMO monk vs DH is good.

Me vs Sin:

0-5
2-5
5-4

Me vs Thomas
0-5
2-5
4-5

Me vs Psykes
5-4
5-4

If dh won all the time 5-0, 5-1 there will be some nerf.