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[link1313]

Just ended tests with barb on new rules. No matter legacy nat (77k HP 400+ress 370k DPS) or new nat (90k hp 500+ress 422k DPS) nothing changed after banning War Cry, because they just using Threatening Shout and effect is the same. Still this <puke> tactics: marathon->ignore pain->rend->run->waiting for hp and cd reset->ignore pain->etc...

For me its suspicious how big nerfs get WD and how nothing changed in barbs, when they both are OP against DH. Now I have balanced fights with WD, but no change with barbs.

Do something with barb nerfs because banning war cry didn't changed anything. If it still will be like now I will just hold 10 challenges all the time, because I don't want to be free frag/point for barbs, and they know good that they have advantage against DH, just look at the barb challenges in league.

How many shots did it take with impale to kill without warcry? (crit shots) .

[verccety]

Forbid Marathon rune as i said before and allow them to use Inspiring Presence only when they don't have Nerves Of Steel, Tough as Nails or Relentless.


What about monks, DH with Chemical burn has small advantage while without monk has a favor especially against non-leg nat users. I think a better solution will be banning Lingering fog rune.

[link1313]

@green, can you post me the tags of these barbs your testing vs? i want to do my own testing also

let me know if any of these barbs have streams. i want to see how they are playing this matchup.

[KNHO]

@KNHO: did he used "Threatening Shout"? I played 1 rounjd only when barb didnt used war cry or Threatening Shout and it was very good - he was able to kill me and I was able to kill him. But with Threatening Shout situation is the same like before:
war cry: +20% armor +20% ress
Threatening Shout: -20% enemy DPS AND 30% slow or -15%as.
Someone can say: just avoid Threatening Shout - it's impossible, it's very hard to avoid 17m rend and this shout have 25m range.

Yes he does allways use it, but like the others said it´s not a big problem.
I tested New Nats and Legacy yesterday. This are 2 realy diffrent playstyles. With New..i got so much dmg that i sometimes 1 shoted the Barb into Ignore pain, after this u can use your remained disci+preparation to score a kill, it´s a all or nothing here, you shouldn´t make mistakes.
And stil....if you are low on discipline, it´s very dangerous for the barb to chase you like hell because of the very high dmg output. Now i understand how some Barbs feel vs Captain or Iria. I personally like to be much more on the move, and play very offensive with less dmg, that´s why i´ll go on with legacy against barbs. Maybe i fraps some fights the next days, and show you.

[IMP-Executioner]

vs DH my normal setup is: threatening shout, warcry, ignore pain and its the death for all legacy users because they lack on dps and lack on pressure

warcry can be changed to overpower - and nearly nothing changes for 1-handed mode but in 2 handed mode nat04 users can 2-shot the barb so he has to use ignore pain and is killable for the next 30 sec if the dh has enough disc to use it offensive - if the dh lacks on dps and doesnt go for the kill we will never win

[devilek666]

personally I find new nat DH's with insane DPS much harder to deal with. Like Captain his 270k unbuffed hurts like hell. I won with him only using war cry and threteaning shout at the same time. Without war cry i believe it will be much harder. Most of the DH's that are crying here are just lacking DPS to kill Barbs (You need really high dps, 200-220k dps unbuffed won't kill top barb, that's the way it is). You need at least 250k I think.

[IMP-Executioner]

yes @ devil!

but its not our fault that they lack on dps - i told 2 weeks ago that they have to use both setups legacy and new natalia to be as flexible as they need to be to win.

And i don´t think they will lose vs all barbs. >90% of all barbs they can kill with their "normal" gear and skill-setup.
I searched for a setup just to kill Sin and Thomas and surprisingly it worked very well vs dh and barbs.

[KNHO]

As some DH´s mentioned before, the matchup vs Monk(good Monks) is very hard without Chemical burn.
I played vs Tobi, he goes into defensive mode with shield and runs very clever around walls..1 mistake by the DH and he is 1 shoted, no matter how much hp he got, the dmg that monks do, is sick. I think the most monks just play to aggressive, try to force a kill no matter what.
The question here is, why should i need 4,5 direct hits without Chemical Burn to kill a Monk, and he still kills me by landing 1? So i take a quote from the DH vs Barb discussion "But its not our fault that they lack on dps - i told 2 weeks ago that they have to use both setups legacy and new natalia to be as flexible as they need to be to win".
I change it to "It´s not our fault, that they lack defense to take some hits by us". Try to go more defensive vs Dh´s dear Monks, and after this period...we can still talk about baning "CB".

[Wittster]

As some DH´s mentioned before, the matchup vs Monk(good Monks) is very hard without Chemical burn.
I played vs Tobi, he goes into defensive mode with shield and runs very clever around walls..1 mistake by the DH and he is 1 shoted, no matter how much hp he got, the dmg that monks do, is sick. I think the most monks just play to aggressive, try to force a kill no matter what.
The question here is, why should i need 4,5 direct hits without Chemical Burn to kill a Monk, and he still kills me by landing 1? So i take a quote from the DH vs Barb discussion "But its not our fault that they lack on dps - i told 2 weeks ago that they have to use both setups legacy and new natalia to be as flexible as they need to be to win".
I change it to "It´s not our fault, that they lack defense to take some hits by us". Try to go more defensive vs Dh´s dear Monks, and after this period...we can still talk about baning "CB".

If you get 1-shotted by a shield monk, you're both undergeared defensively and very unlucky. Also even with a shield and full elite reduction gear, monks get 2/3-shot by dh's. On top of that, DH's have much better healing capabilities than Monk has, lower cooldowns, superior movement etc etc....Anyway, no point in theorycrafting this rule more as both monks and dh's somehow feel like they're the underdog in the matchup...let the test league decide

[Iria]

Yeah, well Rice can 1-shot my DH with a critical Dashing Strike lol. Avoiding Seven Sided Strike or Wave of Light is doable but a skill that moves so fast like Dashing Strike makes a Barbarian's Furious Charge look like hes walking. I admit that he is the only monk I've had problems against without Chemical Burn, but I cannot get enough EHP to not die instantly from his Dashing Strike without seriously gimping my DPS; it already takes 3-4 good critical hits to kill him, should it take more?

Edit: I disagree with DH having more healing capabilities. DH have Preparation - Battlescars to fully restore discipline and 60% max life on a 45 second cooldown. We also have potions like every class does. Sure we can regenerate a paltry amount with our Boar or Sentry - Aid Station, but Monks can 1-shot our Boar and who would stand in a healing zone against a Monk, they give us a choice: move or die!

[MysticaL]

I just finished a budget gearset for 800m (edit: not 1b), let's see how it does

Add me if anyone wants to duel, any gear any class no class restrictions

edit: NVM, DH isn't ready, still need +60 paragon lvls to make up for using budget gear :|

[DaRkE]

PM me your btag please mystio

[Iria]

I just finished a budget gearset for 800m (edit: not 1b), let's see how it does

Add me if anyone wants to duel, any gear any class no class restrictions no items final destination fox only

Fixed

[ricebowl]

Yeah, well Rice can 1-shot my DH with a critical Dashing Strike lol. Avoiding Seven Sided Strike or Wave of Light is doable but a skill that moves so fast like Dashing Strike makes a Barbarian's Furious Charge look like hes walking. I admit that he is the only monk I've had problems against without Chemical Burn, but I cannot get enough EHP to not die instantly from his Dashing Strike without seriously gimping my DPS; it already takes 3-4 good critical hits to kill him, should it take more?

Edit: I disagree with DH having more healing capabilities. DH have Preparation - Battlescars to fully restore discipline and 60% max life on a 45 second cooldown. We also have potions like every class does. Sure we can regenerate a paltry amount with our Boar or Sentry - Aid Station, but Monks can 1-shot our Boar and who would stand in a healing zone against a Monk, they give us a choice: move or die!

It's a lot easier to hit you with SSS than dashing strike.  Dashing takes an immense amount of luck against DHs.

[N0F3aR]

Seriosly Green, STOP CRYING AND WHINING about how OP are barbs. Just use your brain and think how you could kill the barbs ( yes, cuz we have our weakness during the fight, dh just are not using them) insteed of crying NON stop on the forums for banning skills. Cuz if we listening you, ruledeveloper team has to bann all skills of the barbs.