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Author Topic: Rules proposal for the 3rd season - open discussion  (Read 43279 times)

DarkRaven

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Re: Rules proposal for the 3rd season - open discussion
« Reply #60 on: June 06, 2013, 21:27:46 pm »

indeed i took into account the res from dprogress which is an average of all the resists (i think), i didn't use the specific holy resistance, you have 1070 arcane/holy if i added correctly, which would add to around 5.5m base ehp vs holy/arcane melee elites with dodge

what you see on dprogress is my base gear, 158k life, ~900 all res, 940 arcane, 7242 armor, 21.04 dodge (550dex), 17 red vs melee on gear which is 16.7 real, 35 red vs elites on gear which is around 30 real, 32 block but we will not take that into account. base crit hit ~132k

with my dex gear vs monks i have 157k life, 902all res, 946 arcane, 6900 armor, 28.9 dodge (945dex), 18 red vs melee which is around 17 real, 35 vs elites - which is 30 real - which adds to about 6.7mil base ehp vs holy/arcane melee elites with dodge and without block, while still having a base crit hit of ~117k vs yours with 90k, and I consider myself average-high geared, not at the very top like vimer is.

i have done ehp calculations for a long time, the best way is to get both high hp, high mitigation and high dodge, but that is very hard. For example vimer has a nice balance of extreme mitigation with high hp but rather low dodge, you have good dodge and good hp but rather low mitigation. You have no reduction vs melee which vs monks matters and most of all you only have 7% red vs elites which matters quite a lot.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2013, 21:43:09 pm by DarkRaven »
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link1313

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Re: Rules proposal for the 3rd season - open discussion
« Reply #61 on: June 06, 2013, 22:07:40 pm »

Blue bell is a ranged attack is it not? Why do you say melee.

I don't think the 17% melee reduction counts to your ehp.

Crit is not as good because monks can serenity (or mantra?) the damage away. Also I am using bash to catch monks so you should be measuring dps with aps included.

Please post your dprogress vs monk items so I can do the math.

Where do I seem offended to you? I said I believe your math is wrong, that's not me taking offense I stand by statistics. Let me know if you find out if blue bell is melee
« Last Edit: June 06, 2013, 22:55:16 pm by link1313 »
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DarkRaven

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Re: Rules proposal for the 3rd season - open discussion
« Reply #62 on: June 06, 2013, 22:42:51 pm »

I think that others have tested and wave of light is considered melee, but I might be wrong, I will test that when i have the chance. A lot of barbs tested and used Thunder God's Vigor belt vs monks for its high reduction vs melee, but i will test myself to see if i can definitely say if WoL is melee or ranged.

http://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/darkraven-2885/TheBigGuy/3588495, the setup i usually use vs monks

 Dunno about aps being important, they don't stand still while u bash them away and they have 50% or more dodge anyway, bash is nice when it stuns but rend is what kills them.

also do the math for vimer, which is best geared pvp barb in EU

http://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/vimer-2697/Artorius/693236

although he probably can add a lot more ehp vs monks

I didn't mean to offend you, I just say that maybe mafia, for ex, is better geared as monk than you are as barb. And I dunno if US monks are better than SIN for example, or tomas, or even mnich... I haven't seen their setups vs barbs.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2013, 22:45:20 pm by DarkRaven »
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Forti

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Re: Rules proposal for the 3rd season - open discussion
« Reply #63 on: June 07, 2013, 06:46:13 am »

Mnich didnt fight against top wd barbs or dhs as i can see. 18-1 i think and left.

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N0F3aR

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Re: Rules proposal for the 3rd season - open discussion
« Reply #64 on: June 07, 2013, 21:30:38 pm »

Mnich didnt played against me, insane or vimer ( 1 w/o). He wont be that stats if he stayed to play.
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Forti

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Re: Rules proposal for the 3rd season - open discussion
« Reply #65 on: June 07, 2013, 21:39:39 pm »

he got 14-2 vs. non-top players. So dont talk about him with top players.
and he lose by w/o? What a shame imo. ehh...
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DarkRaven

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Re: Rules proposal for the 3rd season - open discussion
« Reply #66 on: June 08, 2013, 08:58:25 am »

I played vs him and I can tell you he can 2 crit shot ANY barb. I played vs a lot of monks, he is at least on same level as Tomas, but with different style. I find it a lot easier to fight against tomas if i take into account cds because he doesnt use tempest rush, the games are more tactical and fast.

I know a lot about EHP and can see what different monks can do, Mnich's blue bells do a lot if they hit and if he gets 2 crits it's over, no matter what ehp barb has. At first he played less safe while i played safe and it was 3-0 for me, after that he started running around more while i chased without considering ignore pain that much, mostly relying on my dodge, eventually he got those lucky crits. But that style is very boring yet it can be very efficient because a crit blue bell easily does more than 50%, no barb can tank 2 crit blue bells from a top monk, barbs have to have either IP ready or dodge at least one of the bells.

I'm pretty sure he could have killed you nofear, dunno about vimer, but if he gets lucky barbs ehp doesnt really matter. It has to do a lot with luck with dodge and crits, one day it could be 5-0 for barb next day 5-0 for monk, it doesnt really say anything, but the matchup is balanced... the only problem is the stalemate potential and being so boring when monks use tempest rush, that is my only problem...

forti, I don't mean to offend you, but a monk like mnich, for example, has around 60% more damage on his crits than you have, I just calculated his crits and yours, you are unfortunately very far from top damage of monks, and there are others with even harder hits than mnich.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2013, 09:07:55 am by DarkRaven »
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Forti

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Re: Rules proposal for the 3rd season - open discussion
« Reply #67 on: June 08, 2013, 09:29:07 am »

You lnow i got pve gear on me? Right? I have 180k dps woth 1.17 ias. So dunno if my crits are low. Lol

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DarkRaven

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Re: Rules proposal for the 3rd season - open discussion
« Reply #68 on: June 08, 2013, 09:43:49 am »

lol, you mean that in PvP gear you have more dps and even lower ehp? trust me, your crits are low, I played vs you, remember? your gear is very far away from top monks, at least what I saw vs barb.

you maybe have 180k without soj with 1.17aps

mnich has now 162k with 30% soj plus 6% cc to wave of light, with 0.9 atk speed. that is around 210-220 without soj with 0.9 atk speed, that is the equivalent ( of actual hits ) of around 280k paper dps with 1.17aps, not exactly but roughly.

I didn't calculate the exact dps but actual basic crit hits, and he has more than 60% more damage than u.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2013, 10:33:51 am by DarkRaven »
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Forti

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Re: Rules proposal for the 3rd season - open discussion
« Reply #69 on: June 08, 2013, 10:12:27 am »

175k dos 1.17ias. 26 or 27 soj abd 7 crit chance on wol. I still can 2 crit barbs. But im "low skill". With this i got actually 50k hp, dunno about ehp. V.s rend i dont need more.

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Forti

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Re: Rules proposal for the 3rd season - open discussion
« Reply #70 on: June 09, 2013, 12:15:34 pm »

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Green

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Re: Rules proposal for the 3rd season - open discussion
« Reply #71 on: June 09, 2013, 12:43:36 pm »

Thanks for your answers. I saw that few of you don't understood the point of the topic and started a conversation about some crap subjects.

Try to remember that rules should be short and simple, balanced as much as they can be, adequate for all type of players including they wallet.

Maybe try to cut the spam and those unproductive conversations and try to suggest us some kind of rules you like to see for the next season, hmm ?

Next spam will be warned.
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Shadow88

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Re: Rules proposal for the 3rd season - open discussion
« Reply #72 on: June 09, 2013, 14:09:48 pm »

@Green : what actually did you expect to happen?
the majority of players statet their oppionion about the proposed rules (see mostly page 1)

Quote
its adressing some stuff that wasnt a problem and not addressing stuff that is
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This is bullshit !!!
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Dont know about other classes Matchups but those barb rules are a joke.
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These rulez are made by one person who didnt even play much all class
etc...
This "spam" about "crap subjects" afterwards is actually a technical conversation and the only way to achieve a ruleset that is accepted by the majority of players.

You just posted a ruleset that you crafted with your friends and did not even give a single reason for any of them (which would be nice, because a lot of them are ... let's say "interesting" ;-) )

one last thing:
Quote
adequate for all type of players including they wallet.
afaik rules are made only for top players with top equipment.

best regards
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DarkRaven

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Re: Rules proposal for the 3rd season - open discussion
« Reply #73 on: June 09, 2013, 14:25:29 pm »

+1 to Shadow

A lot of the inappropriate spam was caused by the rules posted because they seem to be really out of touch with the current state of PvP. I don't know who are those players that came up with those rules but a lot of them seem to be really weird and clearly not a progression from the season 2 rules.

And of course the rules should be balanced only around top players with top gear, there is absolutely no way to try and balance for all levels, it's already hard to come up with good rules for the top.

My rules proposition for the match-ups regarding barbs.

Barb vs Wizard
- the skill Wrath of the Berserker is banned

Barb vs Demon Hunter
- If the Demon Hunter is using the skill Rapid Fire, all other skills are allowed
- If the Demon Hunter is not using the skill Rapid Fire, Barbarian is allowed to use the skill WarCry only with "no rune" and the skill Relentless is banned

Barb vs Monk
- the skill Wrath of the Berserker is banned
- the skill Sprint is banned
- the skill Tempest Rush is banned
(this is debatable, maybe other barbs and monks are fine just with wotb banned. From my personal experience the match-up is balanced but can turn out into a very long stalemate, that can last a lot more than the 45mins per duel specified on rules)

Barb vs Witch Doctor
- The Witch Doctor can choose between the skills FIre Bats or Hex, he can use one bot not both at the same time
- The Witch Doctor can choose between the skills Spirit Walk and Spirit Vessel, he can use one bot not both at the same time
« Last Edit: June 09, 2013, 14:30:38 pm by DarkRaven »
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Green

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Re: Rules proposal for the 3rd season - open discussion
« Reply #74 on: June 09, 2013, 15:10:58 pm »

Tell me, did anyone of you check those rules on practise ? And why it's so important to know, who were the testers from my crew ? I've got some pm's from ppl I've actually know and they are high in the rank, so whats the problem.

I was expecting pure rules or maybe, pure advice about the most controversial, to find a solution and give it a "new name" just to make people happy and get some more players.

There was a lot of posts including the spam, where was something that we maybe can use, but nobody wasnt ready to copy and paste the all for a one piece and make the holy graal.

So my propose, if you feel so strong with your english skills, you're well geared and got some experiance in brawling, feel free to pm me about recruiting you to the new rule dev team. I'll be happy to work with you in private forum where are straight and essential posts from people that actually know each charakter very well.
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