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[N0F3aR]

DH should be able to use chemic burn against monks. True, monks have hard fight vs dh, but chemic burn is nesecary for DH to be able to kill Monk. If DH and Monk are high skill/gear lvl, all skills would be good to be used.

[Forti]

You dont even play dh. Giv some constructive feedback. Chemical burn is op. Also.. They dont care.

By tapatalk 4

[N0F3aR]

Forti facing dh that outgear him 3 times, but they are op... ? Cmn dude, upgr yourself, then give proposal. Thx.

[Forti]

Facing what? I didnt say dh is op. I said chemical burn is op. It was said a months ago abd everybody agree with that.

By tapatalk 4

[Iria]

I know I quit D3CL but a friend asked me to post here on some of the current metagame on US server.

DH vs Barb, I now have builds that will defeat Barbs using any skill build or gear. I have tested this on some of the top Barbs (or at least who is left that didn't quit the game) on the US server for some crazy results. I let the Barbs use everything: full BT, War Cry with any rune, Threatening Shout, and 180k+ HP, nothing worked for them aside from occasionally me messing up Thrill of the Hunt spacing lol. I look forward to testing this with the top EU Barbs when PTR comes around (unless they drastically change other skills changing the metagame again). I won't go into the specific build I use but it relies on Rapid Fire, Thrill of the Hunt, and some very high damage (and Rapid Fire Critical Hit Rate +%). Impale is worthless in comparison; I never use it vs Barbs anymore.

DH vs Monk, I still beat the top US Monks overall but other DH can lose to them. Even I die to them about a third of the time, with me using Chemical Burn. I think Monks try some of the tactics from the US Monks: Miejueshite, Scrapz, and Mafia. DH still have a slight edge but it is only slight now, maybe just banning Sharpshooter is enough.

DH vs WD, I think the match in the US is somewhat even with Plague Bats banned (just that one rune). If allowed to use it, WD will go so tanky they can just rely on bats for damage. Also, with Plague Bats banned, top Monks have destroyed the top WD in US (Mafia/Miejueshite have beaten Dennis/Chucknorris/Asmodai). If the bats are allowed, I think WD have the edge but it is not guaranteed vs Monks. Bats just eat DH for breakfast if the WD goes tanky. Haunt and pets are not really an issue, just Plague Bats in US. Banning Plague Bats is my best recommendation, it works great for the tournaments run by ViciousCattle.

DH vs Wiz, still in favor of DH, but top Wizards can get me lowish and force me to use preparation occasionally. Perhaps just banning Battlescars and the Aid Station is enough, not 100% sure here. There are very few good Wizards left in US.

Currently, I participate in the ViciousCattle weekly tournaments (PVE and PVP). The only rule imposed is Plague Bats (rune) is banned, everything else is allowed for all classes. We have different classes win the tournament each week! Our winners (US server) included: Chucknorris (WD), Ender (WD), Mafia (Monk), Iria (me, DH). Barbs are probably near the bottom now but have possibilities to win vs most classes still. I think in the near future, DH might need something banned too if I show some consistent results. Wizard do need a buff of some kind but just removing all life regeneration tools from opponents makes the matches too short; we are considering other options here. If the WD complain too much that Monks are eating them, we might let them use Plague Bats just for Monks, but that remains to be seen.

Peace

[DarkRaven]

I tested vs error, a top dh in eu, it was pretty brutal. I think I killed him once in more than 10 games. Only way was to get lucky with skorn in wotb.

I could still stalemate with shield vs his build but no way to kill him. ( and that's probably how all barbs will play vs top dhs, full tank stalemate, if there aren't any stalemate rules )

He used stun traps very effectively, I think he placed them under me just when I got stunned, dunno how but he chained 2-3 stuns pretty easily, without ignore pain it was gg. I haven't seen any other dh being able to stun me that much.

He still had enough ehp to survive a crit with skorn in wotb, with prep. And ofc he could have just run easily.

I'm really curious if other top barbs can defeat top dhs like error. My personal feeling is that not only all skills have to be allowed for barb but a slight dh nerf may be needed, rf is such a huge dps boost for dhs.

[Forti]

Legacy nat as i think right?

By tapatalk 4

[DarkRaven]

error had 100+k hp in Bt set, dunno how iria plays, I presume in a similar fashion.

[N0F3aR]

Dark Raven and Iria,
I have tested with error just as Dark Raven did. If dh goes full blacktorne with high ehp, this is kinda stalemate. I played with error and tried to find some counter build. The only good was WotB with skorn, but still in favor of DH. I need 2-3 crit rends in WotB to take him down, and this is pretty hard cuz ignor pain is 7 sec. No matter im on WotB and dh has less dmg, he just kill my hero for 1-2 sec after Ignor Pain.( error hits with rapid fire for 28 sec without stopping ) But here is the problem. DH CANT chase using that skills/gear build. I can run forever and waiting for next WotB with the hope to take 2 crits in a row, otherside i have to run again. If i go shield this round can be 5 hours, until some1 get sleepy. So, here, for avoiding the stalemate, my proposal is for dh to not use blackthorne set against barbs .
   After this tryouts, i asked error to play normal style - he is legacy nata. Fights were very good, and maybe i had the lead with 60/40 %, but still pretty close fight - he survived few times on 1 k life, i survive the same situation.
   Another match - before like 1 week ( or maybe a litle more) i have played vs Med - very good EU dh. He used New nata, i started with my normal build, build that i usually play vs DH. Med leaded 4-0 (yeah , that Rapid fire with the immobilize passive is great). Here in that situation i got confused, everything i know until now didnt work. I had to rebuild my skills, changed some pieces of gear and i had to improve myself during the fight. THe final result was 4-5 for me, yes, i killed him 5 times in a row, but every single round was hard, few times per round i survived with like 3 k life and in the end of the round i was always on 5 % life left. Maybe  he got confused too and he didnt changed anything, maybe for that i have won that bo9, but if he change something too, fight would be even more closer.
   So with this result, i can tell that barb vs dh is closed fight. But if DH goes blackthorne set, that means stalemate, or lucky kill for barb or dh while barb atacking with WotB.

[Forti]

So, ban wotb abd bt for dh? Could be fair?

By tapatalk 4

[Iria]

My PVP set did not use Blackthornes versus Barb. Sure I can make a stalemate build with it, but I want to avoid that if possible.

[N0F3aR]

My PVP set did not use Blackthornes versus Barb. Sure I can make a stalemate build with it, but I want to avoid that if possible.

Every smart player in that game can do stalemate. Go kill barb with 240 k life, 1200 resist, dodge, relentless, nerves, shout and 25k dps. Unkillbe, but at same time no danger.

[KNHO]

My rule suggestion for Season 3! What i would like to see here now, is constructive critics from other active, experienced players. Nofear, Arcanis, Russs, Ximae, Mokkal, and maybe others...make a rule setup/suggestion like i do it here right now. If we get serious rules, by serious geared active players, i´m sure we can attract more ppl joining the league.
 
DH vs Wizzard

Generall: Forbid "Rapid fire", It´s just to sick vs wizzard and turns the match very into the favour of DH.

- For legacy users, the rules would be very ok like they are right now.
- New Nats users can´t play the ninja style around the map like Legacy´s do, they are limited in their disclipline usage, so i would allow them the boar.
- BT users can use brooding, because they are in a discipline disadvantage.

DH vs Barb

- If a DH uses Rapidfire, there should be no restrictions for Barbs.
- If a DH doesn´t use RF, Barb can´t use Relentless and the skill “War cry” is only allowed to use with “no rune”.
- BT Tank Dh´s can´t use "Healing Turret" if they use Rapidfire...this prevents stalemate situations.

DH vs WD

- In duels versus the “Demon Hunter” WD´s can´t use “Firebats”! The skill “Haunt” is only allowed with the 2 sec rune!
- In duels versus the "Demon Hunter" WD´s can´t use zombiedogs if they use a shield!
- In duels versus the "Demon Hunter" WD´s must choose between "Spirit Walk" and "Spirit Vessel".

DH vs Monk

Right now, it´s in favour of "Good" Monks.
The only rule i would set up here is:

- The passive skill "Sharpshooter" is not allowed if the DH uses "Impale" with the bleeding rune.

This matchup is very balanced if both players know what they do.

DH vs DH

- Rapidfire with the rune "Fire support" is not allowed.
- BT set DH´s can use only 1 of the skills "Brooding" or "Healing turret". Not both!
If 1 player stands with a full tank setup in his turrets with 4% life regen, pressing 1 button that can eazy 1 hit players, then it has nothing to do with skill, and should be prevented.

This are my ideas for balancing next season, i am every day online from 22:00 cet.
If you are on my gearlevel and want to test this stuff out, whisper me ingame.

[Ocelot]

  I fully agree with KNHO. Well thought rule.

[IMP-Executioner]

Barb vs Barb - no restrictions
Barb vs DH - knho´s suggestions
Barb vs Monk - no WOTB
Barb vs Sorc - no WOTB
Barb vs WD - no spirit vessel passive + (maybe ban plaque bats rune)