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[Shadow88]

if you rejoin at the wrong place you are screwed. not in all matchups but in some. eating some dps before you had the chance to cast buffs and die because of that sucks. or think of rejoining in a blizzard rain during some a wiz vs wiz. happens alot in pubs and thats no fun at all. also killing an opponent who is at low hp/cds form the start does not feel very skilled imo.

play pubs if you have fun in this kind of fighting or invite like-minded people into privates but this forum should be about real duelling.

[DarkRaven]

I'm a barb, but this style of play actually gives a big advantage to barbs as they are the ones with high regen and enough ms to run and reset after they get a kill... also legacy DHs have this advantage

basically the player with more mobility will be able to reset even when low.

this may balance wd vs barb where wd has the advantage and barb is more mobile but in other matchups can be pretty silly.

[Iria]

So what rules will be used for the PTR 1v1 league?

[Forti]

Ptr will be on for at least one week more. I thinking the wont fix barb hp regen.

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[Mr.Mag]

Iria it's possible that ptr league wont even start :/ first we have to wait for fix, then rules will be published

[MoKKaL]

waiting for a fix for .... the 4% lreg for barbs?
its a test league - just start it

imo WD's are 100times more a pain in the ass than a barb with 2%lreg more than he should have

[DarkRaven]

after I played with you mokkal, I tested with ximae, I think he had ~215k with soj.

I used threatening instead of battle rage, it was pretty one sided with the 4% life reg.

I tested with more tanky gear and he couldn't get me bellow 80% hp, just standing still poping pots and ignore pain, the damage wasn't enough to overcome life reg with mitigation ( 40% dodge, 32 block, 900 ar, 12k arm, 35% vs elites which is actually 30% because it's multiplicative not additive, 5% vs range)

[ximae]

yeah my higher ias setup was pretty hard counterd by his mit/dodge/block. when i switched litany to host i actually had like 235k dps with 1.39 to elites (soj 30 + 5 occulus + 4 wailing host) and couldnt get through o_0.

its funny coz with litany i had had very even match vs vimer a few days back.... talk to darkraven if u want to know how to counter rof, coz man mine usually melts and it was doing crap dmg vs him.

btw just made some adjustments i want to test with u... hopefully the damn int+cc nats ring gets in time before servers snapshot and i can copy over. i just sold my previous one for more than i bought the new one, gold find random vs pot bonus XD, and cant test till the damn ah gives it to me. new setup i want to try is with skorn + enough ias and cc to make the build viable (1.4 aps 52 cc) with pretty high dodge, 600+ dex. abit lower screen dps but with skorns massive cd the hidden 7% cc  to rof should be huge...

btw u should test with shadow too as he has a similar setup to mine in regards of higher aps + occulus setup

[DarkRaven]

From what I've seen a lot of barbs greatly undervalue dodge, like it's not "real" ehp.

The only matchup were is not yet needed is vs other barbs, where rend is only atk.

All barbs get 30-34 block shields whereas 2% more dodge does so much more than 2% more block.... and dex even up to 1000 is a very good way to tank up.

Dodge also can prevent stuns and prevent stuff triggered on crit, like CM, whereas block can't.

Warcry dodge is a very good rune, impunity only is better vs dot damage like rend or some skorn exploding palm or haunts but even vs those classes I prefer dodge.

Ofc u need to have high ar on gear to balance not using impunity.

[link1313]

From what I've seen a lot of barbs greatly undervalue dodge, like it's not "real" ehp.

The only matchup were is not yet needed is vs other barbs, where rend is only atk.

All barbs get 30-34 block shields whereas 2% more dodge does so much more than 2% more block.... and dex even up to 1000 is a very good way to tank up.

Dodge also can prevent stuns and prevent stuff triggered on crit, like CM, whereas block can't.

Warcry dodge is a very good rune, impunity only is better vs dot damage like rend or some skorn exploding palm or haunts but even vs those classes I prefer dodge.

Ofc u need to have high ar on gear to balance not using impunity.

yup dodge is very underrated. i don't undervalue it i even preferred it for some slots where it can roll really high like boots/gloves (100str/200dex/100vit blackthornes boots are possible , 200str/200dex/80 all res ik gloves are possible)

interesting idea with shield. although 200 str /150 dex / 150 vit stormshields are hard to find as there are always monks / dhs looking for those. i prefer the 350 str / 150 vit stormshield another underrated and better option than the 200 str / 200 vit or 200 str / 10 crit stormshield

[ximae]

From what I've seen a lot of barbs greatly undervalue dodge, like it's not "real" ehp.

The only matchup were is not yet needed is vs other barbs, where rend is only atk.

All barbs get 30-34 block shields whereas 2% more dodge does so much more than 2% more block.... and dex even up to 1000 is a very good way to tank up.

Dodge also can prevent stuns and prevent stuff triggered on crit, like CM, whereas block can't.

Warcry dodge is a very good rune, impunity only is better vs dot damage like rend or some skorn exploding palm or haunts but even vs those classes I prefer dodge.

Ofc u need to have high ar on gear to balance not using impunity.

yeah i was hoping it took barbs a while to figure out that dodge is pretty damn good vs rof as u can dodge ticks so it is a massive dr. Not only does it also prevent cm procs but if ur setup to sustain high aps via apoc its also cutting ur ap returns to be able to sustain the channel longer.

[Iria]

After some careful thought and some testing, I have deduced why I lose to the top WDs on US server. The only WDs able to beat me consistently use a full Blackthorne's set and are very tanky. I have yet to see a WD beat me WITHOUT using the Blackthorne set. This is something to consider for future rules. I understand the rules for class balance are intended for skills/passives only, but banning Blackthorne's 4 piece set or at least setting a cap on Elite Damage Reduction (EDR) could be a possible solution.

I think since the game is trending more and more towards defense, at a certain point duels will last incredibly long (or never end in some cases). By capping defensive options, I think we will keep the game fresh and fun. Of course, this is my opinion and my suggestions do not need to be implemented, this is just for constructive discussion. Also, GGs to all the WDs that helped me learn this fact lol.

TL;DR We can consider putting a cap on elite damage reduction (say -14%?) and other % reductions to not overly favor defensive play to the point of stalemates being the future of PVP.

[chucknorris#1885]

I dont use 4 piece bt. and only 7%e-reduction... gear ban wont make a difference. allowing gear switch will eliminate stalemates.

[KNHO]

Iria, reading your post i just ask myself a question, how big must be the skill difference between you, and the good EU Dh´s?
Seems that it´s like Jupiter vs Moon. No EU DH doesn´t even has a little chance vs WD´s like Euronymous, Blud.
Try them on PTR, give us some movie´s to see how you handle them. Looking forward to it.

[Iria]

One main issue with gear switching is that it promotes the style of play where a player will burst in DPS gear and defensive abilities, and then swap to a full tank set to wait for abilities and resource to recharge. Also, this style of play will promote cheaters using gear swap macros to swap almost instantly with a single button. Lastly, I feel some classes benefit from gear swapping more than others providing another factor which may adjust balance again.

@KNHO I am almost certain those top WDs will beat me but if they don't use enough EHP I might have a solid chance at killing them sometimes. With enough EHP, I feel like the battle is really like "how long can I survive and how long until I am out of discipline and hatred"? Also, usually against high EHP WDs I run out of my resources when they still have a lot of their HP left, still have Spirit Vessel, and some of their pets. At that point I simply lose because mana regenerates so much faster than discipline and there is no where to hide from haunt's 25 yard unavoidable target area radius.

@Chuck you are right, the elite reduction might not be the problem but total EHP is. DH have limited offensive options which are severely hindered by pets and require careful aim. Every shot needs to count and even then, if the WD's EHP is too high, that still might not be enough lol.