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Author Topic: Monk vs DH balance  (Read 13090 times)

predsr

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Re: Monk vs DH balance
« Reply #15 on: March 11, 2013, 17:55:18 pm »

Im pretty sure i can 5-0 any monk atm

But i think a ban in Sharpshooter will be a 'smaller' nerf
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Lilith

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Re: Monk vs DH balance
« Reply #16 on: March 11, 2013, 18:14:20 pm »

Win 5-0 with any monk? With what build?
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predsr

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Re: Monk vs DH balance
« Reply #17 on: March 11, 2013, 18:25:20 pm »

any build that uses ShSh+chem burn/vault/boar
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Iria

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Re: Monk vs DH balance
« Reply #18 on: March 11, 2013, 19:14:34 pm »

I wouldn't even bother with boar; monks turn him into salami with a Wave of Light. I usually use the following against monk:

Evasive Fire - Covering Fire
Impale - Chemical Burn
Companion - Bat Familiar
Smokescreen - Lingering Fog
Vault - Tumble
Preparation - Battle Scars

Tactical Advantage
Sharpshooter
Steady Aim (or Perfectionist if the Monk is lower DPS)

I have had zero problems with this build against monks and I never need to change skills or playstyle; it always works.
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Lilith

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Re: Monk vs DH balance
« Reply #19 on: March 11, 2013, 19:22:16 pm »

I wouldn't even bother with boar; monks turn him into salami with a Wave of Light. I usually use the following against monk:

Evasive Fire - Covering Fire
Impale - Chemical Burn
Companion - Bat Familiar
Smokescreen - Lingering Fog
Vault - Tumble
Preparation - Battle Scars

Tactical Advantage
Sharpshooter
Steady Aim (or Perfectionist if the Monk is lower DPS)

I have had zero problems with this build against monks and I never need to change skills or playstyle; it always works.

How u fight if monk camp in corner? I use hail of knifes(20 range) and than archery>steady Aim becouse companion protect him from long range impale.
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jinshin85

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Re: Monk vs DH balance
« Reply #20 on: March 11, 2013, 19:37:21 pm »

I wouldn't even bother with boar; monks turn him into salami with a Wave of Light. I usually use the following against monk:

Evasive Fire - Covering Fire
Impale - Chemical Burn
Companion - Bat Familiar
Smokescreen - Lingering Fog
Vault - Tumble
Preparation - Battle Scars

Tactical Advantage
Sharpshooter
Steady Aim (or Perfectionist if the Monk is lower DPS)

I have had zero problems with this build against monks and I never need to change skills or playstyle; it always works.

How u fight if monk camp in corner? I use hail of knifes(20 range) and than archery>steady Aim becouse companion protect him from long range impale.

Can you invite Sin/Thomas to this thread?

I want to learn what they are doing against you top DHs.

DHs are... definitely the hardest to deal with.
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Lilith

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Re: Monk vs DH balance
« Reply #21 on: March 11, 2013, 20:02:01 pm »

Maybe im noob and don't know how to play vs monk?:D:D
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Iria

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Re: Monk vs DH balance
« Reply #22 on: March 11, 2013, 20:24:16 pm »

In my opinion, the best option a Monk has against a DH is Wave of Light - Explosive Light. The trick is to listen to when a DH uses smokescreen, then wait 1-1.5 seconds, then press Wave of Light. Due to the travel time of the wave, you might actually catch the DH if they are in range and 1-shot them. The problem with this is that:

A) it assumes you have really good timing
B) it assumes the DH is near or in a straight line from you
C) it assumes the waves which go in several directions actually go in the direction of the DH
D) it assumes you hit the DH through their dodge chance
E) it assumes you critically hit the DH with your critical hit chance

Once you get past all those assumptions, it is quite easy to kill a DH lol! You can also try to use blinding flash but again, it is luck based and highly dependent on if the DH stays near you while invisible.
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predsr

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Re: Monk vs DH balance
« Reply #23 on: March 11, 2013, 20:40:10 pm »

The boar is mostly there for them to micro the wrong target, and the 15% all res is decent also.

For monks camping in corners, SS off-screen, snipe, and vault the fuck out :D
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ricebowl

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Re: Monk vs DH balance
« Reply #24 on: March 11, 2013, 21:04:41 pm »

In my opinion, the best option a Monk has against a DH is Wave of Light - Explosive Light. The trick is to listen to when a DH uses smokescreen, then wait 1-1.5 seconds, then press Wave of Light. Due to the travel time of the wave, you might actually catch the DH if they are in range and 1-shot them. The problem with this is that:

A) it assumes you have really good timing
B) it assumes the DH is near or in a straight line from you
C) it assumes the waves which go in several directions actually go in the direction of the DH
D) it assumes you hit the DH through their dodge chance
E) it assumes you critically hit the DH with your critical hit chance

Once you get past all those assumptions, it is quite easy to kill a DH lol! You can also try to use blinding flash but again, it is luck based and highly dependent on if the DH stays near you while invisible.

The best option is to actually use SSS teleport rune and teleport on top of where you think they'll be after smokescreen ends and pray they don't double dodge.
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GREEN2172

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Re: Monk vs DH balance
« Reply #25 on: March 11, 2013, 21:30:33 pm »

For me this duel is balanced too if monk use his companion. If not... this is his problem:P Only 1 monk that i have still problems is SIN - cannot take him from long distance because of his companion and I must go close. He have enough hp&ress to hold my 3 dodged-dota and after that I'm out of dyscypline without legacy nat so i'm dead:P

If you have problems guys try companion and after that we can think about possibly nerfs. And don't talk about nerfs if you have 50k hp against DH:P
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jinshin85

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Re: Monk vs DH balance
« Reply #26 on: March 11, 2013, 22:01:00 pm »

For me this duel is balanced too if monk use his companion. If not... this is his problem:P Only 1 monk that i have still problems is SIN - cannot take him from long distance because of his companion and I must go close. He have enough hp&ress to hold my 3 dodged-dota and after that I'm out of dyscypline without legacy nat so i'm dead:P

If you have problems guys try companion and after that we can think about possibly nerfs. And don't talk about nerfs if you have 50k hp against DH:P

Does SIN use any mantra?

Is his build like this?

blind/serenity/ally/dashing/FoT/sss?
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ricebowl

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Re: Monk vs DH balance
« Reply #27 on: March 11, 2013, 23:01:07 pm »

For me this duel is balanced too if monk use his companion. If not... this is his problem:P Only 1 monk that i have still problems is SIN - cannot take him from long distance because of his companion and I must go close. He have enough hp&ress to hold my 3 dodged-dota and after that I'm out of dyscypline without legacy nat so i'm dead:P

If you have problems guys try companion and after that we can think about possibly nerfs. And don't talk about nerfs if you have 50k hp against DH:P

If you use boar, it'll counter his pet completely.  Then you'll have the upper hand 100% of the time.
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Forti

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Re: Monk vs DH balance
« Reply #28 on: March 13, 2013, 00:24:26 am »

For me this duel is balanced too if monk use his companion. If not... this is his problem:P Only 1 monk that i have still problems is SIN - cannot take him from long distance because of his companion and I must go close. He have enough hp&ress to hold my 3 dodged-dota and after that I'm out of dyscypline without legacy nat so i'm dead:P

If you have problems guys try companion and after that we can think about possibly nerfs. And don't talk about nerfs if you have 50k hp against DH:P

So u telling us, if we dont have hp/ress ehp for 3 dogded dot etc. then we just "unskilled" ? I think it's wrong way...
I using companion, so what? I can take 1, sometimes 2 shot (crit dot will always kill me) with 75k hp.  So I need 150k against dh and u telling it is balanced? Cause u are dh ofc ;]

I got only 936k ehp and I all the time loosing with dh 5-1 / 5-2. only if wave of light got critical undoged lucky strike hit! or if the dh came too close to me (his mistake).

dont tell me that this duel is balanced because there is one monk who can beat you.

a few mins ago I lose twice with two different dh's. with my companion they got no problem... the only one problem is in chemical burn. They got "high" crit chance and dmg ofc. if I got shot with it I got less than 2 sec for serenity. what if it on cd? my problem yes? ok... but hey...

if the monk had no cd on serenity .... let's theorize:

DH can shooting all the time chemical burn with no cd - this skill can one shot more than 99% of monks.
Monk can shooting wave of light with no cd - much more cost than chemical burn and yes, this skill can one shot more than 90% dh's

dh can come to you with ss - shot - ss and gone all in less then 1 sec sometimes. Monks cant do anythink like that... we need camp for dh, when ss gone we need to hit wave of light before they do this, ofc we using serenity. OMG we miss huehue... now we have to wait 20 sec cd.. they will kill us twenty times :) huehue

seriously... sorry for my low end english but we need to balance this.

Guys, the rulez are for top players like sin?  we got 3 monks in top20. we need rulez for them, or for rest of league? -,-

« Last Edit: March 13, 2013, 00:38:57 am by Forti »
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GREEN2172

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Re: Monk vs DH balance
« Reply #29 on: March 14, 2013, 11:08:29 am »

You are right. Maybe it will be balanced, but to avoid abusing dodge chance we need to make dodge cap, for example 60-70%. Iria posted in rule thread link to monk with 98%+ dodge chance - with it DH without chemical burn is 100% dead no matter what eq he have.

I admit that now DH > Monk and we must do something with it.
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