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[N0F3aR]

Hello,
After testing new rulz ( test league + a lot of other non official fights) here is my feedback.
  - Barb vs DH - I think no nerf is needed. DH improve their skill like everyday. So war cry is nesecary. To the DH that still think Barbs are op - you can guys watch Mystical's video. You will learn a lot.
  - Barb vs Wizard - Ok,against some Wizards its ok even without war cry and WotB. But against good wizards i face that problem : Wizard goes for mass disable with crit mass. I mean even his mirrors stun and frost me. + ray of frost slow me for 60% of my ms so even with Marathon I hardly move. Also he has like no cd since his passive crit mass. I tried different builds to counter this, but didnt found proper one. The solution was WotB (and it is). Blizzard gave to barbs a chance to survive such disable ( like in 95% of the time). So maybe allow WotB or ban crit mass should be ok. Or at least that images to not be able to stun and frost. Also its obvious that shout cannot replace war cry since Wizard remove it like np.
  - Barb vs WD - Same as against Wizards. Against decent WD is annoying - they use echo fury + horrify and its going insane. That double fear effect makes almost impossible to hurt him seriosly. Maybe allowing WotB here is good choice. Cuz i dont have any other skill that counter horrify and echo fury. And cc reduciton is not working.
  - Barb vs Monk - Balanced fight. You need to outplay the opponent.
! If you think i am wrong - pls explain me why and give me some contructive feedback. Example : Don't say - find a proper buld against wizards but tell what is this build. How i could counter 99% disable without using WotB. I am open for disccus and tryouts. N0F3aR#2714

Thx
Cheers

[chucknorris#1885]

  - Barb vs WD - Same as against Wizards. Against decent WD is annoying - they use echo fury + horrify and its going insane. That double fear effect makes almost impossible to hurt him seriosly. Maybe allowing WotB here is good choice. Cuz i dont have any other skill that counter horrify and echo fury. And cc reduciton is not working.

actually u have a very easy counter; juggernaut

[MysticaL]

Just to give you guys an update, I am testing my new US gear on PTR

Firstly, the EU WDs are very good, from my experience they are better than the US WDs, and I got completed owned to one that I dueled already (ivu). I need to figure out something against WD again.

HOWEVER, there is no EU barb that got a single KILL on me yet. This is about 30-40 rounds tested so far. Of course, this is WITH Warcry, and yes, even vs. Vimer. In my opinion, the matchup is currently imbalanced favoring DH.

I'm not sure what's an appropriate nerf for DH vs Barb yet, since Barbs need to improve their targetting skills & movement first, but probably better to keep it no rules for now ^^

[N0F3aR]

actually u have a very easy counter; juggernaut

It seems you never faced top wd like Blud,Ivu,Euro. Jugger wont help since you need that passive spot for defansive ability that gives you some protection. And jugger gives 20% cc reduction + heal chance,but i asure that this 15% heal is nothing against decent wd.And as already told,you need 100% cc reduction,no stacking like 50%.

[Euronymous]

Juggernaut isn't helping Barbs vs WD, it's either creating massive fury problems or costs a lot of EHP.

A new issue comes from a change (bugfix?!) of the fear mechanic on PTR. Instead of getting the insane speed boost when feared, Barbs are now feared away at their actual movement speed and thus taking a lot more hits.

I only dueled mannercookie on PTR (dueling seems really dead :/), but so far the only chance for Barbs is to go WotB+HotA. And even that isn't easy to pull off, you need an obscene amount of EHP to survive long enough to get a chance at WotB and then enough DPS to finish the WD in a small timeframe.

[chucknorris#1885]

its been a while since I played against barb with my 20% fear ef but I did find juggernaut very effective once barb gets to about 200k+ hp. basicaly was good enough that it forced me to switch to a dif weapon to get a kill.

if u really cant figure it out you could always ban ef. its just there are lots of wd that play vs barb without ef so you cant just introduce a general rule that will make ef mandatory for wd to compensate the handicap.

[devilek666]

So far there is no barb that can beat blud or Euro without WOTB in reasonable ratio..(ike more than 2x per 100 games)..

Even with wotb it's hard.

So far there is no barb that can kill mystical even with war cry. (haven't tried recently with my new gear, but I assume that without war cry it would be facepalm)

I guess this will be analized by people creating rules.

[Forti]

So WD still gonna be the Best pvp class?

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[RoGH]

Well, maybe simply Mystical is very skilled? If there is only one person on both realms that is kicking all top barbs asses and the rest is in the barbs range, maybe he is just too good? In that case we cant nerf all the other dh's, because just one is superb.

[Wittster]

Sounds like we should un-ban warcry vs dh's right away and also un-ban wotb vs wd's?
I'd think it's important to apply the things learned in the test league and these first few days to a new rules set before we start the ptr league.

[Euronymous]

PTR league should just be "no rules" except for the general rules like "no item swapping". None of the other rules (from WD perspective) result in more balanced duels at this point, so it's better to start from scratch in my opinion. There are also two changes on PTR (fear mechanic (not confirmed if intentional), wiz tele) that affect most matches, especially for WD (echoing + horrify) and DH (Nat helm).

[Wittster]

From Monk's perspective the Chemical Burn ban is definitely needed. Top dh's still beat top monks but atleast it's not a complete faceroll so that's a good rule I'd say. I'm not too sure about the Haunt ban vs monks though, I feel like monks have a pretty big advantage now, but then again I haven't duelled the top EU monks in a while. Looking forward to test against you guys on ptr.

[Euronymous]

Yes, Monk vs. DH is the sole clear mismatch I think at this point. Wizards have to be looked at again now with the new teleport mechanic.

[Iria]

I thought the War Cry ban was ok. Zee's Barb is so tanky, he just regenerates his HP faster than I can kill him and I have pretty good DPS. Maybe ban all runes for War Cry because the problem for me is not being able to kill Barbs beyond a certain EHP due to the life regen being proportional to their EHP (Inspiring Presence).

[Iria]

Also, I am pushing again for a separate rule set for non-legacy DH. I think the class is drastically different depending on how discipline is restored. Some match ups favor non-legacy better (DH vs WD), other favor legacy better (DH vs DH). It seems wrong to bunch the two together when they operate differently and have different weaknesses.